Travellers! Land grabbing ****

[TexMex]

Did anybody else read the article in (I think) the Daily express the other day. This poor woman (in her sixties) splashed out her life savings on a 1 Acre orchard of nice tidy plumb and pear trees (in circa 1996). A group of travellers then bought up the neighbouring field and setup a load of static caravans. Over the next few years they gradually encroached further and further onto her orchard (felling all the trees). The situation now, is that the caravan site now extends right across her orchard (with no sign it was ever there) and to top it all, she has been hounded out of her cottage (that was about 200m from the orchard) by intimidation from these scallywags. (there were over 800 of them on site when she finally called it a day). The local authority are not prepared to do anything about it.

I wonder if it is time that us static folk started to form vigilante goups to counter these sort of mob rule tactics.

 

[pipme]

Unfortunately this type of thing has been going on for years ..... The tide of c rap is rising .... And we are lead to believe these people are poor, harmless, mistreated souls !! This will continue until enough of those with 'a say in the matter' find themselves living next door to it !!
Has anyone looked at their (larger) garden boundaries or those of fields, which could be vulnerable ?
Seen your deeds and the cra p photo copied drawings which accompany most ?
Where are the datums from which the boundaries are drawn ? Do the little arrowheads actually tell us who owns the boundary fence / hedge ?
Maybe a good idea to make a film of the boundaries as they stand and use GPS surveying technology to record them.
http://www.satelliteonthenet.co.uk/books/0471306266.html
This would save a acres of problems if the unimaginable should happen and we should left with the trough snouters milking us dry as they talk through where the boundaries may or may not have been !!

In the event of 'log books' for homes, an accurately defined boundary would be a nice extra for the surveying snouter to throw in to his report.

P

 

[AdamW]

Differential GPS systems can be accurate to 1m resolution or less, and are readily available to surveyors and the like. I like the idea of defining boundaries properly in the "sellers pack"... finally a use for it!

It infuriates me when these b**tards steal and/or squat the land that belongs to others (including public land). When I was a kid they had to cancel the summer fete one year because of these dirty bu**ers taking over the field.

Seeing as they don't think the constraints of the law don't apply to them, the protection of the law shouldn't apply to them either. Evict them every time they stop. And I mean that day. With force. They will get tired of it pretty quickly and either move to another country or decide to settle down and become part of society. If they buy land, make them get planning permission for proper permanent housing. All the money they have saved on tax over the years should go someway towards the materials, and seeing as half of them reckon they are 'builders', they should have no trouble.

 

[jasy]

you can shove equal rights and human rights up your a** on this one. i think it is called theft and they should go to prison

 

[pipme]

Get the old digi cameras out folks and record their passing.
Let us get the balance right on the reportage.
We are being scammed here with respect to travellers ... make no mistake.
I have grown up with people having smallholdings, who would gladly have their children making a home on their own land .. no chance !! The law abiding silent majority are trodden on !!
Nothing like a good double dose of slurry on the adjacent fields to shift 'em on !!
P

 

[Damocles]

Well now, its no longer ok to slag off jews, gays, or especially muslims right now, but perfectly fine to say what you like about travellers.

The government used to have a really crap policy of providing sites for travellers. Then it stopped even this. Travellers are buying their own land. Of course, councils will not give them permission to stop on it either.

If you give someone no legal choice to carry on their way of life, then they will do it illegally. This has always always always been true. it aplies to huntsmen or hunt saboteurs just as much. If you can not give people enough space to co-exist, then in the end you force them to fight for their right to live the way they want, anyhow they can.

Something Mr. Bush should have thought about a bit more before launching his invasion.

 

[ZenStalinist]

I to a reasonable extent agree with what you say Damocles, and to whoever suggested founding vigilante groups, I think that mob rule is not best fought off with this, vigilantism is just another, arguably yet more extreme form of mob rule.
IMO, as long as its not harming anyone else, no problem, I don't see why people feel the need to buy acres of orchard, etc, investment land always a waste of valuable resources in my opinion.
That said, if it comes to felling trees (criminal damage?), or interfering with any industrious use of the land, should be stopped. Otherwise I don't know what people have against travellers.

 

[AdamW]

Well now, its no longer ok to slag off jews, gays, or especially muslims right now, but perfectly fine to say what you like about travellers.

Well yes, gay men are notorious for parking their caravans on other people's land, thieving from and intimidating the local population...

The difference is, Jews, Muslims and homosexuals do not inherently cause social problems. OK, there are often problems when you move a large group of immigrants to one area (but that is a different story), but being Jewish, Muslim or gay does not mean that you are anti-social and a tax-dodger. In fact, gay men in particular contribute MORE towards society because they don't gain the same tax breaks that married couples get and don't often have children who require large amounts of public money for education, healthcare etc. On top of that gay men earn, on average, more than their heterosexual counterparts. The phenomenon known as the Pink Pound.

If you give someone no legal choice to carry on their way of life, then they will do it illegally. This has always always always been true. it aplies to huntsmen or hunt saboteurs just as much. If you can not give people enough space to co-exist, then in the end you force them to fight for their right to live the way they want, anyhow they can.

Their way of life has never been compatible with the way of life in England. It has always been a culture of "We will do what we want, s*d the suckers, they won't fight back!" This is why their way of life is illegal.

In some deprived and depraved areas the "way of life" involves stealing cars and taking drugs. Would you suggest that we give them room to live in this way? It is an established culture, and it is the way they choose to live, after all. Therefore it must be right...

interfering with any industrious use of the land

No no no!!! That is up there with "squatters rights"! Why should it be up for the pickings just because the owner chooses to do nothing with it? To make an analogy, many families now have 3 cars between two drivers... They can only drive two cars at any time. By your logic it would be perfectly acceptable for a stranger to come and "borrow" one car without even asking permission.

 

[Porker]

Yeh and they all turn the milk sour too!!

I can't believe what I read on this section sometimes. I know that everyone is entitled to their own political views but the blatantly racist right wing attitudes displayed here astound me sometimes. What surprises me even more is that these posters can't even see this in themselves!

I fully understand the problems that an element of travellers have caused and lawbreaking is never to be condoned but to single out a section of the population and stereotype them this way i.e they're all thieving and on social is ridiculous. There are loads of people everywhere breaking the law, taking drugs etc. etc. Just because they choose to live in a caravan does not make their existence "illegal".

This attitude is no different to Germany in the 1930's and exactly how this sort of thing starts. Cr*p touted by the gutter press written to inflame peoples prejudice.

Using the logic expressed here - homosexuals are inherently to blame for AIDS.

What exactly are the tax breaks for a married couple? I'd love to know.

I'd also like to live my life the way I please as long as it does not impact others and not have to conform to this nanny state that appears to be developing.

I have enjoyed this forum and had some good advice but I'll add some of mine - stick to DIY.

 

[chainsaw_masochist]

Also, is there not some additional economic issue that this matter raises? Might it not be argued that travellers, if they are not encouraged to pursue their traditional way of life, ie as an itinerant population, will begin, or indeed continue, to demand conventional housing rights and so further constitute increasing demand on what is already a diminishing resource?

 

[kendor]

I'm glad to see some sort of balance is here now regarding these issues.
As i've said before, the media are experts at swinging public opinion, whipping up the populace so that they make irrational decisions based on hatred, yes there are certain individuals in all walks of society who will take advantage of others and they should be taken to task without a doubt, in that poor old lady's circumstance mob rule definitely won the day.
but it can quite easily go to the extreme the other way as has been suggested, sometimes you need to stand back, allow a cooling off period and then make decisions.
Thatcher had the media in her pocket with allowing Murdoch to gain such power over here and he obligingly helped her destroy the unions and along with it the working man's fight(and i mean spirit here) and broke him so much that he became so apathetic and bottles up his anger to the point that it can be triggered to the media's advantage as and when needed, talk about pawns!
these guys are experts at mind games and control of the populace, and if the public continues to let itself get wound up and make comments without rationality then im sorry but they have won the day.
Think for yourself and don't follow the mob's way of thinking, let's get back to taking contol of our lives again.
I'm hoping that that makes some sort of sense, as it is very hard sometimes to put forward a point of view in words.
to simplify:
Live and let live
don't judge others from heresay

 

[pipme]

Way I see it, one pension law for the Judges .. another for the rest.
One law for the traveller .. another for the rest.
We have a poor Govn who try to please everyone .. but especially those who shout loudest !!
So where is that 'motorist's union' ? I say, if the car has to die, If too many are being killed, If speed is a major component .. don't faff around govern all vehicles to say 50mph ... cap engine swept volumes ... Let us do it the simple way. The alternative is through pricing, where a few will have the roads to themselves and never afford the real cost of road upkeep etc .. the rest of us will have to make up the exchequer revenue shortfall through taxation ...
BTW the number of road deaths increased last year ... So what about the statistics claiming huge reductions in the areas using speed cameras ?
Bu llsh it again .... Speed, the UK WMD.

TimesOnLine :-
Despite cameras and promises, road deaths rise to 3,500 a year

P

 

[david and julie]

Here is another take on the Gypo land issue, I have not heard of it happening yet but it will.

Take a couple of acres of paddock/grazing/access greenbelt land in a nice area, which has no chance of any planning at all. Maybe because the council and local people wish to keep their traditional village or WHY. Cost? say £20k.

Fill it with caravans and the associated rubbish and problems for a few years. By this time the local people and council will be sick to death of this and devaluing house prices.

Put in outline planning application for housing development, in keeping with the area of course.

Believe me I worked with gypsies when I was in scrap. They are wily and streets ahead of our leaders. They will do any scam and like the travelling lifestyle not sites.

 

[AdamW]

blatantly racist

Hardly. Other than the fact that the term "racist" in the English language is an oxymoron of course (dunno about you but my race is human race, ethnicity is something entirely different). No, certainly not racist. For a start, I wasn't aware that all gypsies, travellers etc. had particular racial characteristics. Also they don't all come from a particular country, maybe by descent but surely they have been here long enough that it is not an issue.

No, I am "criminalist". If I own a couple of acres in the middle of nowhere for no other purpose than to say "that is my land", then that is still my land. They have no right to camp on it without my permission. If they asked, I might say "Yes, why not, £20 a week per caravan, don't make a mess, and either of us can terminate the agreement at 3 days notice".

I have nothing against travellers or Gypsies (note: Gypsie should be spelt with a capital G, traveller with a lower case t, it is an important point), provided they stay within the realms of the law. Trespass is trespass. I'm still bitter that the fete was cancelled when a load of the bu**ers invaded the fairfield. And wherever they have camped in our area they always leave a massive mess. And who has to pay to clear it up? We do, the taxpayers.

And that's another thing. Whether or not you have a "fixed abode", if you are earning in the UK then you are obliged to pay tax. And I am yet to hear of a case of a traveller who pays income tax or council tax.

 

[pipme]

Snap !! I lived a stones throw from a gypo camp until 18, I was on quite friendly terms with them ... D&J are right !!
I think there is a lot more to this land business than meets the eye, there is talk of monied, non-traveller backers, funding lawyers etc .. I bet the land business is precisely as Dave was relating .. They are wily as the fox ... a very neat wrapper for the whole scenario is the EU edicts on Gypsies .... Make no mistake they'd have your braces and be wearing 'em before your trousers hit the ground !!
One of the old scams ... wait for the forestry guys to complete clearing operations ... they would have the 'chumps' or short wooden logs, in random piles for their xmas bonus .. Geronimo, a quick overnight sorty and the local city suburbians were buying the chumps by the basket full next day .... 100% profit for you know who .. reduced xmas bonus for the forestry guys tho' !! They could never catch the 'wily ones' at it !!
Said it before, they and the asylum seekers are running rings around our people, we need street wise experienced officers, people who know the score, not susceptable to 'wool' being pulled over their eyes !!