Unusual ceiling rose wiring? 3 grey cables & 1 white

[Blaggins]

Hi all.
Hoping someone can help. I've just changed our 3 manky old ceiling rose/pendants upstairs, with new mk replacements. No issues at all - 3 grey cables in with live/neutral/earth. Fine.

Whilst I was in the mood, I'd thought I'd replacement the ancient heavy brass ceiling lamp with a simple pendant, because it's always seemed a bit dodgy (light flickers), isn't to our taste, and I constantly bang mine or my son's head on it!

Here's were the problem occurred. I took the light down to take a look and rather than the normal 3 grey cables I saw in the upstairs lights, I have an extra white cable, with a blue & yellow wire within. I have absolutely no idea what to do, so I decided to screw the lamp back up and call a spark out when convenient.
Unfortunately, despite not actually removing any of the wires, when I turned the power back on none of the lights downstairs work

So now my hand's been forced and I need to do something, unless I want to sit in darkness all night. Here's a couple of pics. Any help greatly appreciated!

 

[flameport]

Unfortunately, despite not actually removing any of the wires, when I turned the power back on none of the lights downstairs work

If nothing has been changed or disconnected there, this is not the problem.

No issues at all - 3 grey cables in with live/neutral/earth. Fine.

Those wires were NOT all live/neutral/earth.
If you have connected them assuming that they were, then that is why you have no lights.

 

[Spark123]

The 3 reds look like they are held together with tape, more than likely a dodgy connection in those. Could have also been the issue with flickering.
You need a piece of terminal block (what the others are connected together with).
Make sure the power is off before working on it.

 

[Blaggins]

Hi, thanks for replying.

Sorry, it's probably my language causing confusion. Maybe they weren't live/neutral/earth, but there were 3 cables - in, out & switch. Each had 1 red, 1 black & 1 earth. I wired in the new light as per the existing one. Setup was virtually identical, except the N/Loop/L were reversed in the new ones. I tested each light after installation and no issues. Those lights (upstairs) all still work. It's just the downstairs ones that don't work, and I'm pretty sure only since I opened up this old downstairs light.

The wiring looks so flaky that I wondered if by simply opening it up something's knocked loose.
Example, 3 red wires all just taped together with insulation tape?!

Why do I have 4 cables in to this light, where i only had 3 in the others?

*confused*

Edit:
@spark123 - just seen your reply. My thoughts exactly. I don't have any connectors, and shops are closed. I wonder if I could fashion a temp one out of the old ceiling pendants?

 

[sparkwright]

The picture looks ok. That is a common arrangement if you have a 2 gang switch controlling two lights, for example.

If your lights aren't working, you need to check all fuses and circuit breakers and RCDs are all ok at the mains check.

If that's ok, you need to isolate the power and check all fittings you have worked on for a bad connection.

Disturbing a fitting can make a bad connection worse.

Often when refitting accessories, you need to re-strip the ends of the wires as the previous connection will have made the end brittle.

Also check you have wired all fittings in the same manner as they were.

 

[Blaggins]

It's a 2 gang plate with 3 switches controlling 3 lights. 1 of which is 2-way (not the one I'm changing). I guess that explains the difference.

I checked the fuse first of all - it's intact.

Could something I did upstairs have stopped the downstairs lights working? As I say, upstairs is stil, working ok.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[sparkwright]

At the mains position, are there two or more lighting circuits; or just one?

The fuses/circuit breakers should be marked up - though always check and never assume it's marked up correctly.

If those reds aren't securely connected together, connect them to the centre terminal of one of your old roses for now.

 

[sparkwright]

Check the other taped up connections. As the light is heavy, that may have disturbed the connections too.

Also send a picture or describe where those blue and black wires go, as they may be reversed - if so it wouldn't make any difference to the light working, but could be technically wrong.

 

[Blaggins]

2 lighting circuits - upstairs & downstairs. It's a really old fuse-wire mains tho.

I've harvested a brass 3 terminal centre block from one of the old pendants, so I'll try wiring the 3 reds into that and wrapping in insulation tape.

 

[sparkwright]

2 lighting circuits - upstairs & downstairs. It's a really old fuse-wire mains tho.

I've harvested a brass 3 terminal centre block from one of the old pendants, so I'll try wiring the 3 reds into that and wrapping in insulation tape.

As it's temporary, you should really use the whole rose, as wrapping a brass terminal block in tape is a bit on the dangerous side.

 

[Blaggins]

I'd much rather replace the whole rose, but that's my problem - I don't know how to wire in the new rose!

Tape removed, looks like this :-

The blue wire (from the white cable) goes to the blue wire to the lamp. The 3 black wires go to the brown wire to the lamp. The yellow wire (from the white cable) goes to a terminal block with one of the reds. The 3 remaining reds (including 1 from the white cable) are connected to each other. And lastly the earths go to a terminal block on their own.

 

[Blaggins]

I'm an utter novice, but that looks like some blinkin dodgy wiring to me!!

 

[sparkwright]

You must fit a rose for now, as there is no earth connection on that metal fitting.

The brown and blue flex on the metal light fitting are the wrong way round.

TURN THE POWER OFF.

Leave that red and yellow as they are in a connector block.

Connect the bunch of reds to the centre terminal of the ceiling rose.

Put a piece of red tape over the blue insulation (to indicate it's live. Connect the blue to the L terminal of the rose. That's the terminal where the brown of the pendant flex goes to.

Connect all the blacks to the N terminal of the rose. That's the terminal where the blue of the pendant flex goes to.

Connect all the earth wires to the earth terminal.

Cjeck that the red and yellow in the connector block are securely connected while you're at it.

Work safely.

You may have to untwist some of those wires, and straighten them out and re-strip as necessary. No need to twist them together. Make sure the wire ends are sound.

 

[Blaggins]

Thanks for that, that's great.

I meant to say a piece of red tape came off the blue wire when I unwrapped it.

I'd actually just come to some of those conclusion myself, having had another look at it, but you've filled in some important gaps & reassured me that I was on the right lines.

So the 3 blacks into the N - I only have 2 free terminals in my rose N slot,vik to join 2 to 1 I assume?

Weird that blue goes to brown. I've not seen blue/yellow/red cabling before, so that really threw me. Only red/black/earth.
I'll give it a crack and report back. Thanks again!

 

[sparkwright]

It's ok to put two or more wires into a terminal hole.