Urgent Help Required: Excessive Demolition & PP
- Thread starter EViS
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Calculated for the whole floorspace, which as I understand would be correct for a 'rebuild'?
Thank you for all the replies again chaps.
Although there is some mixed advice on our next move, we have re-read all of your opinions and believe that the general consensus is to carry on from Monday until we hear back from the PO. Only then will we find a local consultant to advise us further.
If the next couple of weeks/months do lead to enforcement action, at what point must we truly stop work to avoid risking prosecution and/or a fine? I presume there would be a couple of 'warning' letters to begin with? How will the final letter be worded which we would be wise to obey? And how much time would we have from the first notice to the final one?
Although there is some mixed advice on our next move, we have re-read all of your opinions and believe that the general consensus is to carry on from Monday until we hear back from the PO. Only then will we find a local consultant to advise us further.
If the next couple of weeks/months do lead to enforcement action, at what point must we truly stop work to avoid risking prosecution and/or a fine? I presume there would be a couple of 'warning' letters to begin with? How will the final letter be worded which we would be wise to obey? And how much time would we have from the first notice to the final one?
http://www.indigoplanning.com/news/415-vacant-buildings-affordable-housing-credit.html
mentions changes that seek to apply CIL only to additional floorspace (paragraph 2 - most of this article applies to vacant buildings which may not apply to you) - have a look into it?
mentions changes that seek to apply CIL only to additional floorspace (paragraph 2 - most of this article applies to vacant buildings which may not apply to you) - have a look into it?
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Just a thought, if by the time they get to enforcement action (if they bother) the house is built up and more or less finished to the drawings used in the planning application - is there really anything they can do ? You may have gone through an intermediate stage they don't like - but what they have in front of them is what they approved you to build !
Today, I received the following email from Enforcement. It was addressed from the same officer who visited the site prior to Christmas;
Having spoken with the enforcement officer on the phone, she seemed sympathetic and re-iterated the contents of her email. However, she provided two further points of view:
a ) That regardless of whether I submit a new rebuild application or not, I would still have to cough up the CIL as it is a separate issue entirely. Surely, without submitting (and being granted) a rebuild, there would be no CIL to pay? and;
b ) Should we decide to sell the property, during conveyancing the Council would state that there is no planning for the development. How would this come to light? Do solicitor's not just look at a planning application in the public domain? Or does a conveyancing 'Local Search' involve someone from the Council double checking any issues from email chains and internal communication and then outright stating that despite no enforcement action, the property has no planning approval and the approval for the extension (as granted) is effectively void?
Next, I spoke with the planning officer to try to determine what exactly they mean by "renewable energy". This was her reply by email:
Unless I'm mis-reading that, it's as clear as mud! Will a new condensing boiler, insulated cavity walls and roof suffice? The officer couldn't answer this question (duh!).
Having spoken with the enforcement officer on the phone, she seemed sympathetic and re-iterated the contents of her email. However, she provided two further points of view:
a ) That regardless of whether I submit a new rebuild application or not, I would still have to cough up the CIL as it is a separate issue entirely. Surely, without submitting (and being granted) a rebuild, there would be no CIL to pay? and;
b ) Should we decide to sell the property, during conveyancing the Council would state that there is no planning for the development. How would this come to light? Do solicitor's not just look at a planning application in the public domain? Or does a conveyancing 'Local Search' involve someone from the Council double checking any issues from email chains and internal communication and then outright stating that despite no enforcement action, the property has no planning approval and the approval for the extension (as granted) is effectively void?
Next, I spoke with the planning officer to try to determine what exactly they mean by "renewable energy". This was her reply by email:
Unless I'm mis-reading that, it's as clear as mud! Will a new condensing boiler, insulated cavity walls and roof suffice? The officer couldn't answer this question (duh!).
Isn't that all a load of b***ocks based on them assuming you've flattened the site and built a new building ? In your shoes, I'd "take a while" to reply - not too long, but enough for the building to be up and as per the permission granted - and reply along the lines of "the development has been carried out in accordance with planning permission granted ref <blah, blah>."
Say nothing more, and certainly don't speak to them on the phone.
If what you end up with matches what you have planning for, then they don't really have a leg to stand on. The permission included removal of the walls you've removed. Unless there was anything specific about the order of the works then you are in the right.
I can see that they'll be wanting to save face - can't be seen to have gone off half-cock - and may progress it just because they can't bring themselves to stop.
You could try contacting your county councillor and ask why the council is a) taking enforcement over something they've approved, and b) (bearing in mind the current economic situation) wasting your and other taxpayers' money.
On the other hand, once you've stated quite categorically that the development is in accordance with granted permission, they may well go "Hmm, we're taking no further action" - which would be the sensible to do.
Say nothing more, and certainly don't speak to them on the phone.
If what you end up with matches what you have planning for, then they don't really have a leg to stand on. The permission included removal of the walls you've removed. Unless there was anything specific about the order of the works then you are in the right.
I can see that they'll be wanting to save face - can't be seen to have gone off half-cock - and may progress it just because they can't bring themselves to stop.
You could try contacting your county councillor and ask why the council is a) taking enforcement over something they've approved, and b) (bearing in mind the current economic situation) wasting your and other taxpayers' money.
On the other hand, once you've stated quite categorically that the development is in accordance with granted permission, they may well go "Hmm, we're taking no further action" - which would be the sensible to do.
With regard to the four-year rule; once the development has been up for that time, and no formal enforcement action has been taken, it not only becomes immune from enforcement, it also becomes lawful.
So if you sold the house after that period, lack of planning permission would not be a problem.
So if you sold the house after that period, lack of planning permission would not be a problem.
Proceed as simon says above. If you get an enforcement notice, appeal it. If the finished project is exactly as the approved drawings I don't see any way an appeal would not be allowed.
On the "renewable energy provision"; was this a condition on your planning? If so you need to get is sorted ASAP. Your planning may be invalid unless you discharge all conditions.
On the "renewable energy provision"; was this a condition on your planning? If so you need to get is sorted ASAP. Your planning may be invalid unless you discharge all conditions.
I believe that they are asking for renewable energy as this is the policy relevant to new builds/re builds. In their eyes, I am rebuilding and do not have planning for this, hence they are saying that as long as I am building to all of their policies, they have nothing to enforce, and as previously stated somewhere, they cannot force a planning application to be submitted.
So, we've got a SAP consultant on board (sigh) to show that our build is in line with their 'renewable energy/cutting carbon emissions' policy.
So, we've got a SAP consultant on board (sigh) to show that our build is in line with their 'renewable energy/cutting carbon emissions' policy.
If we are not served with any form of enforcement notice, and we complete the build, where do we stand if we decide to sell within four years, or even within the year?
When solicitor's undertake a Local Search on behalf of a buyer, I presume they would write to the council with the standard enquiries. The enforcement officer told us that the council would have to inform any future purchasers that the property has been built without permission. But how would this come to light and where would that paperwork be to back up their claim under a Local Search? After all, the property is as it was with the addition of an extension. The council do have photos of the demolition work which was undertaken if that can act against us?
Furthermore, we have had to build the side-extension 400mm narrower (and away from the boundary) to allow for a new inspection chamber (which we could not site internally) and provide a side access to the garden. Our planning permission was granted for building 200mm away from the boundary, now there is a very narrow access (i.e. 600mm from the boundary). In other words, we have made the side extension area marginally smaller. We were going to request a material amendment to our planning permission, but not sure whether it's even worth now undertaking this formality? Again, would this have the potential to cause problems when picked up by future buyers/surveyors/solicitors?
When solicitor's undertake a Local Search on behalf of a buyer, I presume they would write to the council with the standard enquiries. The enforcement officer told us that the council would have to inform any future purchasers that the property has been built without permission. But how would this come to light and where would that paperwork be to back up their claim under a Local Search? After all, the property is as it was with the addition of an extension. The council do have photos of the demolition work which was undertaken if that can act against us?
Furthermore, we have had to build the side-extension 400mm narrower (and away from the boundary) to allow for a new inspection chamber (which we could not site internally) and provide a side access to the garden. Our planning permission was granted for building 200mm away from the boundary, now there is a very narrow access (i.e. 600mm from the boundary). In other words, we have made the side extension area marginally smaller. We were going to request a material amendment to our planning permission, but not sure whether it's even worth now undertaking this formality? Again, would this have the potential to cause problems when picked up by future buyers/surveyors/solicitors?
Point out to them that you are not "re-building", you are altering an existing building in accordance with planning permission that has been given. Therefore the policies applicable to new build and re-build do not apply.
The scale of the works should be obvious from the drawings. It's not possible to build a roof to a new design without removing the old one, and it's not possible to remove walls without removing them !
In hindsight, I suppose it might have been better to build the new walls first - then it would have been less obvious to the local busy-bodies with nothing better to do but stir up trouble. But that's not something you can change now.
Hmm, isn't that libel since you do in fact have planning permission for what you are building ?
You might start hinting that it's going to look very bad for them if it gets to court and they have to admit that supposedly professional planning officers can't read basic drawings
They will say that and it's intended to frighten off buyers. But the fact remains that if it has been up at least four years, and no formal action has been taken, it becomes immune from enforcement - and legal. Problem is, many conveyancing solicitors are surprisingly ignorant of the law in this area, and they in turn make prospective buyers nervous.[/i]
To reiterate jeds and simonh2's points, there's no point getting any further into renewable energy and CIL unless you're in possession of a set of conditions on your permission (the letter they sent you saying "notice is hereby given that the council has approved... Subject to the following conditions.. Blah.. No working on Sundays..blah.. In the interest of residential amenity..blah") stipulating they be met.
Those are your conditions.. Not some set of bullsh!t from their policy documents or copy n paste list for new build schemes that they wish you'd apple for so they can hit you with. You comply with those conditions and implement the scheme. You do not do any additional works they have not permitted. You might have to demonstrate that you truly have knocked down only the before walls and erected the after walls in your plans.
Those are your conditions.. Not some set of bullsh!t from their policy documents or copy n paste list for new build schemes that they wish you'd apple for so they can hit you with. You comply with those conditions and implement the scheme. You do not do any additional works they have not permitted. You might have to demonstrate that you truly have knocked down only the before walls and erected the after walls in your plans.
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