USB sockets (without mains) in en suite

[kjacko]

Hi,
Is it legal to install a 1g faceplate with 2xUSB sockets into an en suite? They are purely to charge our oral B electric toothbrushes as we have USB induction chargers that only require 5mA.
There will be no mains sockets anywhere, I’d basically have a standard 1g power socket with twin USB ports in the loft with the usb extensions plugged into them and coming down through a cavity and flush mounting on the wall in the en-suite.
Any advice on this would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[ericmark]

This has come up on another forum and there was some debate.

Complying with BS 4573 seemed to be main point raised, and also being SELV (separated extra low voltage) but personally I see no problem.

However if a rented home we have to consider what an EICR may say about it. Again personally I only have 6 teeth, not even decadent if that's the name for 10 teeth!

But if my wife wanted it I would fit LAP grid system with 2 USB outlets without worry, but as to complying with BS 7671 no so easy to answer.

 

[winston1]

First you only need one as toothbrushes only need charging every three weeks or so and the two can be staggered. Leading on from this why not charge them in the bedroom as and when required?

 

[JohnW2]

But if my wife wanted it I would fit LAP grid system with 2 USB outlets without worry, but as to complying with BS 7671 no so easy to answer.

Assuming that the accessory is supplied at 'mains voltage' then, unless one tries to argue that a backbox sunken into a wall is 'outside of zones', then I think BS7671 is pretty clear in saying that such an accessory would NOT be allowed - but, of course, BS7671 is not 'mandatory', and all that the law requires is that it should be 'safe'...

Kind Regards, John

 

[kjacko]

First you only need one as toothbrushes only need charging every three weeks or so and the two can be staggered. Leading on from this why not charge them in the bedroom as and when required?

Because that’s not what I want to do. I’m completely re-doing the en-suite and wanted to put the chargers in there if I can. They need recharging once a week. Yes we could continue to charge from the bedroom as and when, but that’s not the point.

 

[ericmark]

unless one tries to argue that a backbox sunken into a wall is 'outside of zones'

Which it is, as only accessible with a key or tool.

toothbrushes only need charging every three weeks or so

This is true, you only need power in the bathroom when you need the water running while using the power, be it a shaver or tooth brush or pick. I would not dream of leaving my shaver in the bathroom to charge, to use yes, so the hair and be washed down the sink, but to charge no.

However because I don't does not mean no one else should and I see no good reason why these should not be used in the bathroom. One can plug in one of these into a shaver socket, so why not have a direct USB outlet, they are likely far safer.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Single Voltage Shaver Socket 230v + USB A+C - Anthracite | Knightsbridge (SF8909AT)

 

[RandomGrinch]

There will be no mains sockets anywhere, I’d basically have a standard 1g power socket with twin USB ports in the loft with the usb extensions plugged into them and coming down through a cavity and flush mounting on the wall in the en-suite.

...but back to the actual question
I believe an accessory such as a euro module USB faceplate:

should be fine.
As long as the actual power supply is fitted out of zone - in the loft as you suggest, or even a device such as the LAP module that Eric suggests, could be fitted inside a vanity unit. Your USB extension leads would then have less distance to travel.

Edit:
Or should I not be saying that?
Would the power supply itself, have to be SELV, even if the extra low voltage supply is outside of zone?
Finding a USB SMPS that states categorically that it is SELV, is quite difficult!

 

[JohnW2]

.... unless one tries to argue that a backbox sunken into a wall is 'outside of zones', ....

Which it is, as only accessible with a key or tool.

I'll be interested to hear other people's views about that.

I think that one thing is certain - that the definition of bathroom 'Zone 2' says nothing about 'keys or tools'

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Sorry the words are "fixed partitions" etc. So under the bath if bath panels are fixed you can have pumps etc, but if the panels are not fixed then not permitted.

If however the bath is not fixed, it is not a bathroom.

701.414.4.5 Requirements for SELV and PELV circuits
Where SELV or PELV is used. whatever the nominal voltage, basic protection for equipment in zones 0, 1 and 2 shall be provided by:
(i) basic insulation complying with Regulation 416.1, or
(ii) barriers or enclosures complying with Regulation 415.2 and affording a degree of protection of at least IPXXB or IP2X.

It talks about "SELV at a nominal voltage not exceeding 12 V a.c. rms or 30 V ripple-free d.c.. the safety source being installed outside zones 0, 1 and 2." and 5 volt USB would fall into this.

I would use common sense.

 

[SUNRAY]

Hi,
Is it legal to install a 1g faceplate with 2xUSB sockets into an en suite? They are purely to charge our oral B electric toothbrushes as we have USB induction chargers that only require 5mA.
There will be no mains sockets anywhere, I’d basically have a standard 1g power socket with twin USB ports in the loft with the usb extensions plugged into them and coming down through a cavity and flush mounting on the wall in the en-suite.
Any advice on this would be appreciated.
Thanks

A simple way is to install a shaver socket rather than a 13A and plug your USB adapter and extention into that.

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry the words are "fixed partitions" etc. So under the bath if bath panels are fixed you can have pumps etc, but if the panels are not fixed then not permitted.

You seem to be talking about Zone 1 but, as I said, I was talking about Zone 2 (which is presumably where the OP's USB sockets would be.

701.32.3 ..... The space under the bath tub or shower basin is considered to be zone 1. However, if the space under the bath tub
or shower basin is only accessible with a tool, it is considered to be outside the zones.

It talks about "SELV at a nominal voltage not exceeding 12 V a.c. rms or 30 V ripple-free d.c.. the safety source being installed outside zones 0, 1 and 2." and 5 volt USB would fall into this.

As I said, that would only be the case if one could successfully argue that the 230V bits in the backbox of the OP's USB sockets were 'outside of Zones'- but, as I said, I'm not convinced about that argument.

If the accessory were mounted on a 'surface box' ,I can't see that one could argue that it was acceptable, so I'm not convinced that sinking it 2 or 3 centimetres into the wall necessarily makes a difference.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

A simple way is to install a shaver socket rather than a 13A and plug your USB adapter and extention into that.

This states SELV and suitable for direct connexion into ring main.

MK USB Charging Module White - Euro Data Coms Module - White | MK (K5837WHI)

 

[kjacko]

Single Voltage Shaver Socket 230v + USB A+C - Anthracite | Knightsbridge (SF8909AT)

Thanks, yes I saw those the other day. That might be the better, less ambiguous option as we know shaver sockets are ok as long as in the correct zone.

 

[SUNRAY]

How about one of these, seems to be made for the job

Screwless Matt White Shaver Socket - 230v With USB

Screwless Matt White Finish Shaving Safety Socket Double Plate dimensions 87.5mm wide x 148.5mm high x 3mm deepSlim profile plate complete with integral gasket Requires 25mm deep backbox (not incl)Made from high quality ultra slim, premium grade

www.astra247.com