Give us a shout next time you have a date 
Vaillant ecoTEC plus 428 f27, f64 & CON error
- Thread starter dipz
- Start date
Sponsored Links
Tony I think you are not reading what I have written
You are adament ESR is of importance yet you fail to take up the challenge
Why would I want to emulate ESR? This is something you have raised so let the lesson begin
Tell you what. Since you raised the subject of ESR, challenge stands. I will let you find capacitors that look good, show capacitance value printed on the label, yet cause erroneous operation in a circuit of your choice. You will have to demonstrate circuit operation and show the effect high ESR has on your chosen circuit.
Should be in London in two or three months. That should allow you to select components of your choice to demonstrate effects of high and low ESR. Will even send you reminder that I am coming down.
Do not forget, you are not the only one who understands things electronic. I look forward to further education on ESR
Sponsored Links
Gave you chance to prove your point but you back out saying it is a futile exercise time wise.
A practical person who believes in what he says would jump at such such an opportunity
How about I send you capacitors that I would have used in a circuit and you prove these are unsuitable giving reason why.
Circuits I would supply would only need ESR faulty capacitor to be connected in circuit to prove/ disprove your theory. Time wise it would take minutes. If you are short of time, I will conduct the tests you specify and compare capacitors and present the result here or in combustion chamber.
Equipment wise I have a signal generator, timer, storage scope and DC voltage supply and several meters to chose from, so doing a comparative test will not be a problem. Will be able to produce results in printed form for posting here, so let us have a crack at it. What do you say Tony. As I said, I am a willing student and you are a man of knowledge.
PS we are not talking old capacitors but new undamaged ones with can as should be as opposed to heat damaged i.e. Likes of the capacitor I would swop on a board.
One would hope that new caps have an appropriately low ESR for their application.
A too high ESR is likely to be found on older caps.
It is not my "theory" it is electronic's practice.
Particularly relevant to smoothing caps.
So how would you measure the ESR using your equipment?
A too high ESR is likely to be found on older caps.
It is not my "theory" it is electronic's practice.
Particularly relevant to smoothing caps.
So how would you measure the ESR using your equipment?
Tony you are the one who brought ESR into the equation.
I just want education, you are the man who knows about ESR
Now do not start closing this thread as a LOT of people are watching this thread and I suspect also looking for education. If ESR is something you have cut your teeth on, it will be no problem for you to demonstrate with practical example, effects of ESR in electronics. Here google will not be a friend as you are the man in the spotlight who needs to demonstrate bad and good ESR that you choose to bring into a discussion that was basic as it could get.
I just want education, you are the man who knows about ESR
Now do not start closing this thread as a LOT of people are watching this thread and I suspect also looking for education. If ESR is something you have cut your teeth on, it will be no problem for you to demonstrate with practical example, effects of ESR in electronics. Here google will not be a friend as you are the man in the spotlight who needs to demonstrate bad and good ESR that you choose to bring into a discussion that was basic as it could get.
In an ideal world if you are seriously into electronic repairing then you would buy an ESR meter!
If just casually interested you could apply an ac voltage at a high enough freq for the reactance of the cap to be very small and put a variable resistance in series with the cap under test. Then measure the voltage across the cap and move the pot until you get half the applied voltage and then measure the value of the pot.
If just casually interested you could apply an ac voltage at a high enough freq for the reactance of the cap to be very small and put a variable resistance in series with the cap under test. Then measure the voltage across the cap and move the pot until you get half the applied voltage and then measure the value of the pot.
Tony you are the one who brought ESR into the equation.
I just want education, teach away
I just want education, teach away
Totally totally not relevant.
I don't want ESR meter, you are the one who broached the ESR topic, you get it and prove your theory.
I measure the capacitance of a capacitor in circuit. I see wrong value, I change that capacitor. You have poo pooped that idea by bringing ESR into the discussion. If you can prove why I should not be doing that, I am all ears. Now educate me. I am not interested in putting variable resistance in series with capacitor, nor want to apply high frequency AC voltage to circuit.
If I am wrong in my understanding or what I suggest, I will eat humble pie and apologise, are you man enough to do the same? If not, lead on sir, let the education begin. I am a humble student awaiting to be educated.
Last edited:
The more I look at ESR topic, the more I think you Tony, need to find out for yourself how ESR effects circuit operation. Without giving you any hints, I know ESR will be important in certain apolications, but you have failed to, at post 40, with nearly 2000 views, failed to explain in your own word why I should not use a meter to check capacitor value matches the label.
At this point you have fired the ESR boomerang that is out of control. I can see this thread is getting shelved like your other engineering proclamations such as flattening gas pipes, using precision and exactness etc. I still believe you are a clever man, but we are no longer on a primary school playground where we need to praise ourselves. I have to say to be praised by others is the best accolade and a little humbling too.
Do respond if you want to take up the challenge, but I think you will not.
At this point you have fired the ESR boomerang that is out of control. I can see this thread is getting shelved like your other engineering proclamations such as flattening gas pipes, using precision and exactness etc. I still believe you are a clever man, but we are no longer on a primary school playground where we need to praise ourselves. I have to say to be praised by others is the best accolade and a little humbling too.
Do respond if you want to take up the challenge, but I think you will not.
If you were really interested in ESR then you would buy an ESR meter or simply measure it using simple components.
I cannot spend time teaching you if you don't really want to learn.
It would indeed be a challenge to teach someone who does not want to learn. That's why I so appreciate those who devote their life to teaching wayward youths.
I cannot spend time teaching you if you don't really want to learn.
It would indeed be a challenge to teach someone who does not want to learn. That's why I so appreciate those who devote their life to teaching wayward youths.
I think you need to get to grips with the ESR topic first before advocating what I should do. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you knew about the effects of ESR in circuit you would long ago have posted a VERY simple explanation. You have failed to do so other than repeatedly go on about purchasing a meter to look for ESR losses OR adding external components to emulate ESR losses. What a load of rubbish
It is not a matter of spending time teaching me, it is more a case of you cannot explain what happens in capacitor circuit. You seem to be under the impression, when I say I want to learn, that I am looking for education from you. I mistakenly gave you more credit than you merit
my apology to likes of Adam, Ian, G4U and other timid posters who have seen through the smokescreen before I did. Crack on and keep deluding yourself.
40 posts and neatly 2000 views and massive smokescreen but no clear answer from the great engineer.
Clearly when a person picks up a snipet of information and then tries to use it to appear clever, it does backfire. Come into my web said the spider to the fly......
The parameters in which the capacitor is being used, or would have been in circuit provided, ESR can be ignored. Cannot see a capacitor in a simple Power supply, timer circuit, and several other applications running at 10khz where ESR would be a factor to contend with. Heat generated in such a circuit may then be relevant but mr agile is in a habit of building on someone else's response like you have noticed. Clearly he cannot answer in detail why I cannot change a capacitor like for like other then parrot fashion repeated say I should get a meter to measure this nuisance anomaly
It is fine to bamboozel those in the dark, but teach your granny how to suck eggs...... well it could then become a situation similar to that as is clearly laid out in these three pages for all to see.
The parameters in which the capacitor is being used, or would have been in circuit provided, ESR can be ignored. Cannot see a capacitor in a simple Power supply, timer circuit, and several other applications running at 10khz where ESR would be a factor to contend with. Heat generated in such a circuit may then be relevant but mr agile is in a habit of building on someone else's response like you have noticed. Clearly he cannot answer in detail why I cannot change a capacitor like for like other then parrot fashion repeated say I should get a meter to measure this nuisance anomaly
It is fine to bamboozel those in the dark, but teach your granny how to suck eggs...... well it could then become a situation similar to that as is clearly laid out in these three pages for all to see.
DP, you can choose what you want to do when faced with a possibly faulty capacitor. If you want to ignore ESR then that is up to you.
All I did was to point out that the ESR can affect the operation of a circuit and therefore is a parameter that in some applications is something which can be usefully measured. It also needs to be considered when choosing a replacement capacitor.
Anyone who wants to learn more sitting back and watching a video can see this:-
https://training.ti.com/capacitor-selection-types-capacitors
Last night an electronics engineer friend called me and I took the opportunity to ask him if he had an ESR meter and how much he used it. He agreed that it was important to measure ESR in some applications and said that a while ago he was repairing TVs for a few months in between his normal defence design jobs and used an ESR meter daily.
This is not relevant to the thread topic of repairing boilers because it is the norm to replace and not to repair PCBs and fans etc.
Tony
All I did was to point out that the ESR can affect the operation of a circuit and therefore is a parameter that in some applications is something which can be usefully measured. It also needs to be considered when choosing a replacement capacitor.
Anyone who wants to learn more sitting back and watching a video can see this:-
https://training.ti.com/capacitor-selection-types-capacitors
Last night an electronics engineer friend called me and I took the opportunity to ask him if he had an ESR meter and how much he used it. He agreed that it was important to measure ESR in some applications and said that a while ago he was repairing TVs for a few months in between his normal defence design jobs and used an ESR meter daily.
This is not relevant to the thread topic of repairing boilers because it is the norm to replace and not to repair PCBs and fans etc.
Tony
Last edited:
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
Similar threads
