Vaillant ectotec Cycling Problem

[Broards]

From those of you in the trade, how does a consumer find a competent heating engineer and how can you tell the difference between the competent and the not competent ? (Without waiting for then final outcome after the event).

 

[ALEC1]

thats a major problem.. there are no easy answers...

but an assessment of personality is probably the best way!!!

 

[Agile]

I agree with Alex that an assessment of their personality is about the only way.

But whereas a recruitment professional would find that easier, an artist would not.

 

[b13kal]

From those of you in the trade, how does a consumer find a competent heating engineer and how can you tell the difference between the competent and the not competent ? (Without waiting for then final outcome after the event).

You can ask for reference and work they done.

Nothing wrong with that

 

[Agile]

That may sound a good idea but the only way to check a reference safely is to speak to a previous customer.

I would never burden a customer with others calling them and certainly never give out their telephone numbers to anyone!

Think of this senario which I have come across:-

Plumber installs a boiler and gets it totally wrong!

Customer says they were recommended by their neighbour! I ask their neighbour what they did for them! Answer "fitted new taps".

The only useful reference is for very similar work!

Tony

 

[ALEC1]

the truth is that fitting boilers and setting up heating systems is a skill with no ownership...

Britsh Gas fit boilers but almost all of their field engineers would be out of depth with vaillant's vr470

 

[Jamer]

Hi all, Broader, you're right, how can we both need the same boiler, especially as I'm being told mine is oversized! Which is odd as the sizing tool on Valliants website tells me it's the boiler for me. I've played with the criteria and it has always come out the same.

To be fair, the guy who fitted my boiler is a good heating engineer Valliant and Glow worm approved. He said get 24kw, I wanted vaillant, they only do a 28kw, the website said no problem. It is properly sized to match my 220 m2 house plus hot water.

I have dialled the power back to 14kw and turned the knob all the way up to 11 (75C) and the differential is around 11C to 14C. Before. I couldn't get it above 8C when warmed up. Consequently it's stopped anti cycling. This may be a coincidence, its warmer so it's not having to run so much.

It's clear to me this kit is very sensitive, there's a lot on the web about them and if 2 seperate Vaillant engineers can't help, what hope for your normal jo blogs. Apparently I should have 28mm pipes to and from the boiler, but the instalation guidance clearly says 22mm. Methinks someone is grasping at straws.

 

[ALEC1]

I think you highlight a problem, technology has moved on and the industry isn't equiping us with the right skills.. thats because the manufacturers look at building regulations and consider that thats all they have to do...

so unless building regulations change to make compensation controls mandatory as they do in other countries we are stuck with an industry model that doesn't really cater for the client who wants a better more efficient system

 

[gaswizzard]

As said previously (sooey i think) it's a circulation issue , very easy to blame vaillant and call this boiler a lemon when it's clear the installer is to blame , of course the vaillant will 'behave' itself when throttled back (d.o) possibly due to a circulation issue? , as said many times on here if these boilers are fitted correctly then no issues WHATSOEVER , yes I've fitted many 4xx/6xx/8xx series vaillants ALL with happy customers , play around all you like with the knobs and dials , the sofware in these boilers can only do so much with regard to shoddy installation , it can't work miracles.

The larger vaillants normally require an additional circulator to be fitted in series , the internal circulator (6 m head) will allow for a circuit resistance of around 1.5 metre (resistance through hex is around 3.5/4m) , not uncommon to install 25/80 on some of these where pipework has been undersized for system load.

As regard WC not sure how this would help with regard to the issues posted (short cycling)

 

[gaswizzard]

I think you highlight a problem, technology has moved on and the industry isn't equiping us with the right skills..

Basic system design would be the first place to start Alec , sadly this is something that is lacking in this industry.

 

[ALEC1]

system design and the use of boiler software to optimise a heating system is the dark art of the industry, with no real prospect of installers being enligthened...

The manufacturers may end up selling more hardware at premium prices (Take a bow Viessmann and Vaillant), but the UK outposts of these companies dont really have the right resources...much better a BMW for the rep, rather than a happy client at the bottom of the supply chain...

 

[gaswizzard]

Alec , the vaillant issues in this thread utilize numpty (as you would call it) on/off controls , are you saying if these boilers were WC'd then short cycling wouldn't be an issue? , are you suggesting deltaT/flow rate can be ignored when using WC?

If no to the above then why mention WC?

 

[ALEC1]

I only install compensation controls, and, with the exception of the 400 series do not see short cycling...but then I range rate too..and yes I think the search for a delta T of any size is unnecesary... constantly being available to provide heat with almost constantly running pumps which is what compensation controls amount to, leads me to beleive delta t is irrelevant..

My broag for example with a compensation control has a delta t of between 0 and 6c...never much higher..

Yes it does circulate water with the burner off, and no its not pump overrun...it has a differrent status code...

and with weather comp, as the outside temp rises so the flow temp drops, sometimes with the burner on...so the delta T narrows because the flow temp drops!!!!!

 

[gaswizzard]

and with weather comp, as the outside temp rises so the flow temp drops, sometimes with the burner on...so the delta T narrows because the flow temp drops!!!!!

How is this the case with constantly running pump/s?

You have a clever way of wording your posts Alec (defies all logic ) , it gets difficult to actually pin you down.

 

[gaswizzard]

..and yes I think the search for a delta T of any size is unnecesary... constantly being available to provide heat with almost constantly running pumps which is what compensation controls amount to, leads me to beleive delta t is irrelevant..

MRT being irrelevant too?