Various problems, but concerned by hot boiler housing

[rammyrich]

Hi,

I've noticed various issues regarding my gas boiler central heating system over the last few weeks, but yesterday I noticed that the casing/housing of my Ideal Classic FF240 gas boiler is very hot to the touch. In fact if it's been running for 20 mins or so, I can't bear to hold my hand against it.

Is this normal or should I be powering it off and ringing my heating cover folks (Dom & Gen) straight away?


Other issues that I've had/started to notice recently:

• 
  Certain radiators not heating up and having to be bled frequently.
  The sound of water/air rushing through the pipeworks somewhere when the system started from cold early in the morning.
  Young daughter complaining her bedroom radiator makes a 'crackling' sound preventing her from sleeping.
  Yesterday, thought it seemed cold, checking room thermostat - heating should be on and the pump is running but the radiators are cold.

Not sure how you'd describe my system - I have a hot water cyclinder, and 2 tanks in the loft, one large, one small. Not sure if relevant, but the small tank only has about 2 inches of water in it.

I appreciate any comments on the above, particularly about the boiler housing getting hot.

Thanks, Rich[/list]

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Not familiar with your boiler, but I think most suffer some heat loss via the casing when running. I would assume its been serviced regularly as part of your heating cover, if not then should be done asap!

The small tank shouldnt be 'full', but have approx 4" of water in it, at very least enough to cover the outlet! If it has and the ballvalve lets water in when pushed down slightly, it should be ok. This feeds the central heating system, the larger tank supplies the hot water cylinder. The water in the cylinder and heating system are seperate, heat is passed from the boiler circuit into the hot water via a coil of pipe inside the cylinder.

When you bleed the rads. does the air come out forcefully, followed by a strong jet of water? Need to ascertain there's sufficient water in the system!

 

[Agile]

I dont approve of a design like that but most of those boilers do run too hot to touch.

But it could also indicate a flue fault. It would be safer to get it checked.

However, knowing the exact surface temperature of the casing would be a more scientific appraisal of any danger.

Its not surprising the fans often fail.

Tony

 

[tamz]

Sounds like a no water fault to me

 

[Agile]

Does the water in the small tank cover the outlet?

Can you push down the ball valve and let a little more water into it. Not more than about 4" though.

Tony

 

[rammyrich]

Hi folks, thanks for all the suggestions so far.

An update - i got home from work on Thursday evening to find the house cold, but I could hear the pump running. I couldn't get the boiler to start-up, even following the manufacturer's instructions regarding powering off and restarting.
On Friday morning, I arranged for an engineer to visit.
Whilst I was writing a note for the engineer describing the various issues (i was about to go to work), the boiler started up!
Needless to say that the engineer was unable to find any specific faults, but replaced the fan anyway. He suggested that the hot casing was due to this being an inefficient model.

Since then, the boiler starts ok, but seems to regularly stop for a few minutes before firing up again, even though the room thermostat temperature hasn't been reached. The casing is still very hot - I'm going to call Ideal about that as soon as I get a chance. It's also noisier now, or at least a different type of noise.

To answer some of the earlier suggestions/questions -
The boiler has been regularly serviced.
The small header tank has a few inches of water in it, and the ballvalve appears to be in the correct position - pushing it down does let water into the tank.
When I bleed the radiators, the air does seem to come out forcefully and water then starts to dribble out, but I guess this is because the valve is only slightly open. I'll have to check this properly in the morning before the heating comes on.

I did find an installers manual and one of the troubleshooting steps suggests -

Boiler cycling on and off the fan and burner come on for short periods but the pump can be heard = There is an air lock in the boiler or system pipework and the interrupter thermostat is shutting down the boiler. Vent air from the radiators and ensure all thermostatic radiator valves are in
the open position.

I tried this this morning, opening all TRV and bled all of the radiators (all of the upstairs rads had a small amount of air in them), but the boiler is still stopping and restarting a few mins later.

Searching these forums for posts relating to this boiler model, I came across this - //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=810367#810367 which refers to a high pitched 'resonating' sound that I've also been experiencing for several years now. Not sure that I've heard it since the engineer did his business on Friday, but it does hint at air getting into the system. unfortunately I can't find the post that this post refers to.

If there is still air in the system, are there any other suggestions for removing it, other than bleeding the rads?
In all likelihood I'll be calling out the engineer again later this week.

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

Thanks,
Rich[/url]