vibrating cold supply

[mrcrow]

in our house when using the cold water in the bathroom it vibrates
we thought it was to do with the toilet cistern filling which it started on originally now running the bath or sink can exacerbate it

the fitting in the toilet cistern seems to shut off ok but to our reckoning is starting off the vibration in the pipes

we think the water pressure is a bit high as well but loath to do anything till we get some advice here.

the house is in st george's, bristol and is quite old but we think the plumbing is fairly new as the bathroom was refitted as part of an update around 10-15 years ago
the toilet cistern, sink and taps are quite old fashioned though and a newish filling part has been fitted in the cistern

any help really welcomed as when the toilet is flushed it wakes up the children at night so we have to be a bit circumspect in that respect

yours
mrcrow and family

 

[ree]

My mental check list for water hammer has about 10 possibilities that all come with possible variables.

However, fill valves and ball valves are major culprits, likewise loose unclipped piping.

Water pressure in BARs is fine at 3BAR to 4 BAR (or approx 60psi).

Was the w/hammer there when you moved into this house or is it a recent thing?

 

[bellairaphon]

A pressure reducing can be fitted and a mini expansion valve should sort the problem, around £50 in materials and fitted as close to the stop tap.

Nath

 

[mrcrow]

My mental check list for water hammer has about 10 possibilities that all come with possible variables.

However, fill valves and ball valves are major culprits, likewise loose unclipped piping.

Water pressure in BARs is fine at 3BAR to 4 BAR (or approx 60psi).

Was the w/hammer there when you moved into this house or is it a recent thing?

its recent and we have been here for over 7 years and its just started with no recent work done on the plumbing
i am going out today to buy and fit a new cistern fill stack...the one that is there looks like its been replaced with a cheapy one and for the cost it is worth i think changing it anyway

thanks for that west coast wisdom
cheers
geof

 

[mrcrow]

A pressure reducing can be fitted and a mini expansion valve should sort the problem, around £50 in materials and fitted as close to the stop tap.

Nath

well that is something i havent heard of.
the stop tap is under the sink but i think i may be able to gain access to do the job
or do you mean the isolation valve at the cistern...there isnt one but i think i can replumb the supply to form a loop to fit the parts...the distance from the tiling where all the pipes are to the cistern inlet is only about 7cm
it will have to be in compression fittings...is that ok?

as mentioned above i think the cheapy cistern fill stack started some of the noise and i will change that anyway
grateful for that new bit of info about plumbing
thanks
geof

 

[bernardgreen]

This might be a quick fix It worked for a friend until he could fit a horizontal under water "paddle" to the arm to dampen the vibrations.

image taken from http://www.practicaldiy.com/plumbing/pipe-noises/water_tank.gif

 

[mrcrow]

This might be a quick fix It worked for a friend until he could fit a horizontal under water "paddle" to the arm to dampen the vibrations.

image taken from http://www.practicaldiy.com/plumbing/pipe-noises/water_tank.gif

thanks Bernard
the existing filler is a bottom feed filler like this



a really cheap version all plastic and wobbly and looks like it might be the culprit
i have been googling a bit since i got all this information from you chaps and am going to get a stack type if it will fit in, otherwise a better ball type...?

i will need to fit a stop valve in this space if possible for future situations




keep in touch though
we are using a bucket to flush the toilet so the kids dont get woken when having their naps

cheers
geof

 

[ree]

Suggest that you observe the valves i mentioned before buying anything, and doing this and that to your system. I'm presuming that the whole installation is mains fed - no domestic tanks in the loft.
Locate and operate both your internal and external stop-taps before any work.

You must be pretty sure of the culprit before doing DIY on whats probably your only WC (esp with toddlers in the family).

Judging by the pics your WC is old. Sods law says that when the fill valve is changed the siphon will then go west, and changing them out for a Fliudmaster (the best) fill and flush valves will cost nearly as much as a cheap WC.
Why not pay a plumber to come and diagnose the problem, change out the WC for a cheap close coupled WC, and install an isolator ("stop valve") on the supply? Just a thought given the tiled boxing-in etc.

FWIW: there's adequate space to fit a compression isolator on the supply stub of copper. There might even be an in-situ isolator below the boxing-in shelf?

 

[bernardgreen]

The end of the white nylon screw should be touching the side of the cistern. It is there to prevent the up-lift from the ball bending valve. It look s to be too short for this combination of ball valve and cistern. Before you do anything see if fitting a piece of wood or something between the end of that screw and the side of the cistern solves the problem. If if it does then hold it place with a hook from a bent metal coat hanger or similar.

 

[mrcrow]

Suggest that you observe the valves i mentioned before buying anything, and doing this and that to your system. I'm presuming that the whole installation is mains fed - no domestic tanks in the loft.
Locate and operate both your internal and external stop-taps before any work.

You must be pretty sure of the culprit before doing DIY on whats probably your only WC (esp with toddlers in the family).

Judging by the pics your WC is old. Sods law says that when the fill valve is changed the siphon will then go west, and changing them out for a Fliudmaster (the best) fill and flush valves will cost nearly as much as a cheap WC.
Why not pay a plumber to come and diagnose the problem, change out the WC for a cheap close coupled WC, and install an isolator ("stop valve") on the supply? Just a thought given the tiled boxing-in etc.

FWIW: there's adequate space to fit a compression isolator on the supply stub of copper. There might even be an in-situ isolator below the boxing-in shelf?

i bit the bullet and checked with the plumbing advisor in the hardware shop and showed him my photos and explained the problem. he suggested renewing the tatty filling valve as a direct replacement was only £3.98 and i could use the existing float

its a cheapy so i went on with it to test the water as they say and fitted an isolating valve right away so i could eliminate the house water supply being off too long
and it worked!!!
all is quiet and fills nicely...i expect it may eventually need attention but it has provision for renewing the diaphragm if it goes quite easily

thanks again for the help...just hope that noise stays away

cheers
geof

 

[mrcrow]

The end of the white nylon screw should be touching the side of the cistern. It is there to prevent the up-lift from the ball bending valve. It look s to be too short for this combination of ball valve and cistern. Before you do anything see if fitting a piece of wood or something between the end of that screw and the side of the cistern solves the problem. If if it does then hold it place with a hook from a bent metal coat hanger or similar.

hi bernard
see my reply to ree...i did a cheap replacement in hope that would solve this noise...and it did!
i now await to see if the problem is truly solved..

and the new one is going to need some help as you have suggested supporting the valve stack
i have some plastic material which should do the job

cheers
geof

cheers
geof

 

[mrcrow]

...snip...

is that California as in near shieldhill
my wife taught school at shieldhill and i worked in grangemouth..many years ago prior to 1980 that is
we lived in larbert

daft me thought you were in the usa california...

cheers
geof