Viessman or Baxi
- Thread starter ub7rm
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No, condensers are great as they are essentially money for (almost) nothing. Contrary to the believe of an amazing amount of people, including too many installers, there is zero new or complicated technology involved. As reducing the working temperature on a conventional boiler has almost no effect provided the thermostat works, weather compensation will only have an effect when used with a condenser.
From fully condensing to not at all, makes about 10% difference. If we follow the (probably erroneous) assumption that all installers will commission, balance and tune properly, one can expect the boiler to condense somewhere around two thirds of the time that it is on.
That means that weather compensation will make somewhere around 3% additional saving. 1 degree difference on the roomstat averages 4%
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namsag
Can anyone give me facts and figures on these two
Best practise is to have a progammble room stat with about 6 different temp periods that basically allows the heating to be on all day if room temp drops they even come on during the night.
Most houses are empty for most of the day so does this save money and energy over The traditional heating on twice a day with the room stat set around twenty degrees when peple are in
Also boilers are sized for whole house KW demand and boiler should meet this output to nearest KW so is a condensing boiler going full belt but condensing using less gas than an oversized boiler that quickly heats the system thus the house and cuts down to minimum rate.
Yes it is burning the gas more efficent but is it burning more gas by being on full rate longer
Best practise is to have a progammble room stat with about 6 different temp periods that basically allows the heating to be on all day if room temp drops they even come on during the night.
Most houses are empty for most of the day so does this save money and energy over The traditional heating on twice a day with the room stat set around twenty degrees when peple are in
Also boilers are sized for whole house KW demand and boiler should meet this output to nearest KW so is a condensing boiler going full belt but condensing using less gas than an oversized boiler that quickly heats the system thus the house and cuts down to minimum rate.
Yes it is burning the gas more efficent but is it burning more gas by being on full rate longer
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namsag
Where the wife works they have a state of the art weather compensation system controlling the heating only thing is and i kid you not the sensors and controls are installed in a building 10 miles away.
Mechanical roomstat vs programmable.
It is a fundamentally different way of doing things. One way of making it NOT work is to use the new stat to simulate the old fashioned system.
If you use it to set temperatures to what is actually required, the product of degrees times hours will be lower than with the old system
30 years ago when boilers were either on or off, it made sense to install a boiler to match the expected need.
This became obsolete in the 80s when modulation became common place. Today it makes zero difference in use whether the boiler is sized like in the old days or twice as big. In terms of use that is.
One could even argue that as a larger boiler will have a larger heatexchanger, it will be more likely to be in condensing mode for longer, thereby being more efficient to run.
We are hopelessly behind compared to the continent. Green issues have been a force to reckon with in the land of Vaillant and Bosch for a long time. We think of condensers as something new that needs to be proven. They have been a common thing across the channel for decades. The technology itself dates back to before the war. Ww2 that is.
It is a fundamentally different way of doing things. One way of making it NOT work is to use the new stat to simulate the old fashioned system.
If you use it to set temperatures to what is actually required, the product of degrees times hours will be lower than with the old system
30 years ago when boilers were either on or off, it made sense to install a boiler to match the expected need.
This became obsolete in the 80s when modulation became common place. Today it makes zero difference in use whether the boiler is sized like in the old days or twice as big. In terms of use that is.
One could even argue that as a larger boiler will have a larger heatexchanger, it will be more likely to be in condensing mode for longer, thereby being more efficient to run.
We are hopelessly behind compared to the continent. Green issues have been a force to reckon with in the land of Vaillant and Bosch for a long time. We think of condensers as something new that needs to be proven. They have been a common thing across the channel for decades. The technology itself dates back to before the war. Ww2 that is.
am not familiar with -- outdoor reset compensating control -- effective gain.
can you enlighten me or point me to website?
i am practical to a fault and if something can not be proven by measurement outside a lab to safe more than 4% (same as 1 degree down on roomstat) i class it as negligible
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namsag
Just off out to put up 1000 xmas lights outside the house will continue this important save the planet issue later. 
Just off out to put up 1000 xmas lights outside the house will continue this important save the planet issue later.
Why hasn't someone invented energy saving christmas lights, or better still, banned the f*ckers.
scrooge
Bengasman wrote
http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/BoilerBurner/Eff_Improve/Efficiency/Boiler_Reset_Control.asp
This beats your 3 percent saving.
Though 3 percent is still a saving on gas consumption so therefore I think you need to see a doctor.
I think weather compensation is a standard feature on most German domestic boiler installs and I expect many other EU countries are not far behind (if not in front).
http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/BoilerBurner/Eff_Improve/Efficiency/Boiler_Reset_Control.asp
This beats your 3 percent saving.
Though 3 percent is still a saving on gas consumption so therefore I think you need to see a doctor.
I think weather compensation is a standard feature on most German domestic boiler installs and I expect many other EU countries are not far behind (if not in front).
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namsag
And thats one of the biggest problems on this site too many people assume or expect standards to meet thier thoughts without being able to prove it with facts and figures.
The UK government said they would meet kyoto agreement and brought laws in to make it happen , ie condensing boilers at extra cost to the general public and more raw materials to fit them... but yet simple things like xmas lights outside, shops with every telle burning 24/7, and the latest smoking ban with pubs and clubs having patio and halogen heaters heating the winter air are using far more than the domestic gas customer ever did .... Where is the logic
The UK government said they would meet kyoto agreement and brought laws in to make it happen , ie condensing boilers at extra cost to the general public and more raw materials to fit them... but yet simple things like xmas lights outside, shops with every telle burning 24/7, and the latest smoking ban with pubs and clubs having patio and halogen heaters heating the winter air are using far more than the domestic gas customer ever did .... Where is the logic
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namsag
Exactly dave complete an utter waste of time unless it is unilateral
Well spotted though too late. Doctors have given up on treating me years ago.
Thanks for link, knew the system but not aware that it was called – boiler reset control-.
It says it CAN save up to 5%, but that is with conventional systems as far as I can tell, which means that if it can help to avoid raising the return temp above 54 on a condenser, it could save significantly more in total.
If it were around 6% AND reliable and maintenance free, it could be worth it for larger users.
Just to indicate how much you can achieve with just proper balancing and settings, I am in a medium size 3bed victorian terraced. All the rads bar one have trvs powered by an old ecomax. Flow – return difference 19K, return temp average about 50 C.
Heating on 24/7 from october til march. Gasbill about 300 p/a.
Expected gain by RBC between 10 and 20 quid a year. With added purchase, install, and maintenance cost, I can expect to break even by the end of the lifetime of the boiler, IF I don’t have a brakedown cost related to it.
Thanks for link, knew the system but not aware that it was called – boiler reset control-.
It says it CAN save up to 5%, but that is with conventional systems as far as I can tell, which means that if it can help to avoid raising the return temp above 54 on a condenser, it could save significantly more in total.
If it were around 6% AND reliable and maintenance free, it could be worth it for larger users.
Just to indicate how much you can achieve with just proper balancing and settings, I am in a medium size 3bed victorian terraced. All the rads bar one have trvs powered by an old ecomax. Flow – return difference 19K, return temp average about 50 C.
Heating on 24/7 from october til march. Gasbill about 300 p/a.
Expected gain by RBC between 10 and 20 quid a year. With added purchase, install, and maintenance cost, I can expect to break even by the end of the lifetime of the boiler, IF I don’t have a brakedown cost related to it.
But a trendy soapbox for politicians to add more indirect taxation in the name of carbon footprints.
Wheres all tha extra airline environmental tax gone, or the 4x4 car tax, or the 2p/litre on fuel recently?
Certainly not into grants for renewables projects etc.
Why do they think we are so blind and stupid?
Or maybe enough of the public are
Wheres all tha extra airline environmental tax gone, or the 4x4 car tax, or the 2p/litre on fuel recently?
Certainly not into grants for renewables projects etc.
Why do they think we are so blind and stupid?
Or maybe enough of the public are
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