Walking through an industrial estate

[notb665]

My partner and I have just started walking our daughter to nursery through an industrial estate. We sometimes take our dog, kept firmly on a lead.

On two occasions a man has come out from one of the many units as his dogs have started barking and running towards us as we pass. He says that we are not allowed to bring our dog through as it is a private estate. I asked him if there were signs up to the effect that it was private and/or I wasn’t allowed to walk my dog through there. He said no, but there will be.

Shall I continue to walk my dog through the estate?

 

[big-all]

googled " public rights of way"

http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/aol/search?query=public+rights+of+way&invocationType=spelling !!!!

 

[JonB]

I personally would contiue to walk my dog, if the road/path is not gated.
It sounds like the guy gets sick of his dogs barking,
My wife has just suggested asking the council.

 

[pickles]

The dog is irrelevant. It depends on whether or not it's a public or private right of way. If it's public he can't stop you, with or without the dog . If it's private he may be able to, depending on who he is in relation to ownership of the land. Finding out may be difficult, the quickest thing to do is to phone the highways department at your local authority and ask them. They should be able to tell you whether they think it is public road or right of way or not.

Clues are whether it's tarmaced and street lit, if it is it is more likely to be a public road than if it's rough or unmade and doesn't have street lighting.

It's quite a difficult area and if you really want to push it you will probably need legal advice and be prepared to spend some time and money on it.

It's best not to risk trespassing until you are sure. Probably be easier just to take a different route

 

[Trazor]

Trespassing is NOT a criminal offence.
Provided you are walking your dog in a controlled fashion, only a jobsworth would challenge you.
The worst that could happen is, they could sue you............

 

[pickles]

Trespassing is NOT a criminal offence.

Very true Trazor, but since telling the jobsworth that will possibly cause tempers to fray and get notb665 into a confrontation in front of his partner and very young child it'd not the most sensible solution to the problem.

 

[Trazor]

Trespassing is NOT a criminal offence.

Very true Trazor, but since telling the jobsworth that will possibly cause tempers to fray and get notb665 into a confrontation in front of his partner and very young child it'd not the most sensible solution to the problem.

I agree entirely and if you read my post I did not suggest telling the jobsworth anything.....
Its just that the moaners and whingers seem to get their way, not the sensible majority.

 

[gangman]

Trespassing is NOT a criminal offence.

Not always the case, there are plenty of situations where trespass is a criminal offence.

 

[oompah]

Trespassing is NOT a criminal offence.

Not always the case, there are plenty of situations where trespass is a criminal offence.

I thought it was an offence if you caused criminal damage or trespassed with the intention of causing damage.ie:if you trampled across a field of corn this would be damage but if you walked around the margins you are not trespassing because no damage as been done.

 

[Trazor]

In 1984 aggravated trespass or the act of trespass with the intent to disrupt or obstruct a lawful activity became a criminal offence.

So simple trespass as such is not a criminal offence, it only becomes such when it is used to commit other offences.

This law was a knee jerk reaction, to a situation 20 odd years ago when a man walked into Buckingham palace and reached the Queens bedroom, he could not be charged with trespass.

 

[gangman]

Trespass on royal residence is a criminal offence. This has only just come about, this month I think, probably becuase of fathers 4 justice.

Trespass on railway land is also an offence for which you can fined, also MOD land and certain goverment buidings, eg. 10 Downing Street, under anti-terrorism laws. In these examples just being there means you can be arrested.

 

[Softus]

Trespassing is NOT a criminal offence.

Nobody said that it was, until you said that it wasn't.

Provided you are walking your dog in a controlled fashion, only a jobsworth would challenge you.

Not true. Criminals tend to be particularly sensitive about strangers near their nefarious activities. A passer by might be 'treading on the forbidden lawn' without even realising it.

The worst that could happen is, they could sue you............

Also not true. Some irrational people can be violent, and some criminals live their lives entirely outside the law, so wouldn't be very interested in suing.

notb665, if you're taking your family through this place then reconsider their safety before your statutory rights.

BTW, if the bloke really has come running towards you, I would consult the police. For example, did you feel at all threatened by his behaviour? Leaving aside the matter of trespass, the police should respond with a minimum of a quiet word in the appropriate shell-like.

 

[Trazor]

Softus...You are being very picky here, and talking about a very extreme set of circumstances.

I have worked on many industrial estates, and visited literally hundreds of them in the course of my work. At that time of morning (nursery time), they are very busy places.

This guy saw them as an easy target, and probably did not like the fact that his dogs were set off by their dog.

Criminals like to draw attention to themselves, where the police may get involved don,t they............

 

[Softus]

Softus...You are being very picky here

Nope - just realistic and appropriately cautious.

...and talking about a very extreme set of circumstances.

Extremely what? Likely? Unlikely? Northern? Southern?

It doesn't matter how extreme it might be - if there's a risk to wife and child then it isn't a risk that's worth taking.

I have worked on many industrial estates, and visited literally hundreds of them in the course of my work. At that time of morning (nursery time), they are very busy places.

That's nice.

This guy saw them as an easy target, and probably did not like the fact that his dogs were set off by their dog.

Both of those are assumptions, not facts. If you want to recommend that notb665 carries on regardless, on the basis that you're probably right, then please go ahead - I'm not stopping you.

Criminals like to draw attention to themselves, where the police may get involved don,t they............

I take it that you've never been threatened by someone who didn't like you being where you were entitled to be and where they didn't want you to be. Fine - throw your caution to the wind and dance all night; may all of your Hills Be Alive to the sound of your statutory rights.

 

[Trazor]

Nope - just realistic and appropriately cautious.

No you are being alarmist

...and talking about a very extreme set of circumstances.

Extremely what? Likely? Unlikely? Northern? Southern?.

You obviously did not understand your own post.

It doesn't matter how extreme it might be - if there's a risk to wife and child then it isn't a risk that's worth taking.

I totally agree, and never suggested anything other.......

I have worked on many industrial estates, and visited literally hundreds of them in the course of my work. At that time of morning (nursery time), they are very busy places.

That's nice.

The point being, how many others was he challenging, so bringing even more notice to their "nefarious activities"........

This guy saw them as an easy target, and probably did not like the fact that his dogs were set off by their dog.

Both of those are assumptions, not facts. If you want to recommend that notb665 carries on regardless, on the basis that you're probably right, then please go ahead - I'm not stopping you..

But realistic assumptions based on my above point. And I never suggested that notb665 carries on regardless.

Criminals like to draw attention to themselves, where the police may get involved don,t they............

I take it that you've never been threatened by someone who didn't like you being where you were entitled to be and where they didn't want you to be. Fine - throw your caution to the wind and dance all night; may all of your Hills Be Alive to the sound of your statutory rights.

We are talking about an industrial estate here, I do not see the point in expanding the debate to other "No Go" areas.
And no, I have never been threatened on any industrial estate.

Perhaps I,m just lucky in that I have never walked past an open unit where they are smelting gold down......