what size cable is best?

[deadshort]

At 10.03 am, DS said 2.5mm. Crack on Craig life is too short mate !


ds

 

[333rocky333]

Your correct any "accessorry would create a "safezone" whether a switch, socket even a blankplate,

 

[333rocky333]

. The only difference with a shower, is it goes up the plasterboard wall, where there will be no sockets or plugs or any signs, then into the loft and back down and into the shower. So no different again. Id say the oven is alot safer to be able to tell where a cable lies then what an electric shower would be.

if they were buried less than 50mm
Then that cable going up the wall would be OUT of zone, the cable down to the shower would be IN zone
Cable down to a fusebox also IN zone

 

[JohnW2]

In fact i asked an electrician what route he would take to wire in the oven in my kitchen and he said straight up the wall and across the landing back into the CU. So i cant see how this isnt going to be within a "safe zone" Its going straight up a wall under the floor then it doesnt resurface from the flooring untill its above the cupboard where the CU lies.

If the only place where the cable is 'in the wall' is where it goes upwards in vertical alignment with the cooker isolation switch then, as you say, that will be fine - that bit of cable would then be in the 'safe zone' created by the isolator. Do I take it from what you are saying that this is the only place where the cable would be buried/concealed in a wall?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Your correct any "accessorry would create a "safezone" whether a switch, socket even a blankplate,

We've discussed this many times before, and I think the consensus (or, a least majority view) is that an accessory only creates a safe zone in relation to cables 'connected' to it. That means that a blank plate alone is not enough - the cable must be joined (e.g. in a connector block) behind the plate to create a safe zone. Similarly, a cable cannot 'enjoy' (e.g. by just 'passing through' a backbox a safe zone created by an accessory relating to some other cable/circuit) if it is not itself 'connected within/behind the accessory. If it were not for that rule, it would be possible for someone to remove the blank plate, or the circuit/accessory relating a different circuit, and 'plaster over', leaving a cable not in a safe zone.

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

BS.

DS

 

[JohnW2]

BS.

I take that to mean that you have a differing opinion

.. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on any surface of the wall or partition...."

... and, as I said, it makes good sense.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

Your correct any "accessorry would create a "safezone" whether a switch, socket even a blankplate,

We've discussed this many times before, and I think the consensus (or, a least majority view) is that an accessory only creates a safe zone in relation to cables 'connected' to it. That means that a blank plate alone is not enough - the cable must be joined (e.g. in a connector block) behind the plate to create a safe zone. Similarly, a cable cannot 'enjoy' (e.g. by just 'passing through' a backbox a safe zone created by an accessory relating to some other cable/circuit) if it is not itself 'connected within/behind the accessory. If it were not for that rule, it would be possible for someone to remove the blank plate, or the circuit/accessory relating a different circuit, and 'plaster over', leaving a cable not in a safe zone.

Kind Regards, John

Not wishing to open a new debate
In this case I was thinking more of the OP's cable where it comes down behind the wall and out to to the oven.

 

[JohnW2]

In this case I was thinking more of the OP's cable where it comes down behind the wall and out to to the oven.

Sure - as I recently wrote to the OP...

If the only place where the cable is 'in the wall' is where it goes upwards in vertical alignment with the cooker isolation switch then, as you say, that will be fine - that bit of cable would then be in the 'safe zone' created by the isolator.

... but I also added, since it is clearly an important question to which we (at least, I) am yet to be certain that we know the answer):

Do I take it from what you are saying that this is the only place where the cable would be buried/concealed in a wall?

Kind Regards, John

 

[craig20102010]

At 10.03 am, DS said 2.5mm. Crack on Craig life is too short mate !


ds

Cheers bud i will do.

if they were buried less than 50mm
Then that cable going up the wall would be OUT of zone, the cable down to the shower would be IN zone
Cable down to a fusebox also IN zone

I guess all the sockets in my house are out of zone then. Unless this only applies to showers lol

If the only place where the cable is 'in the wall' is where it goes upwards in vertical alignment with the cooker isolation switch then, as you say, that will be fine - that bit of cable would then be in the 'safe zone' created by the isolator. Do I take it from what you are saying that this is the only place where the cable would be buried/concealed in a wall?

Kind Regards, John

This is correct


Iv learnt alot anyway. Iv learnt that what im doing is right and always was and that most of this discussion was a bit pointless lol but maybe i didnt explain enough in the first place in relation to how it was going to be all setup.

Thanks for all your advise its been great. Even if it did turn into a heated discussion. Its all a learning curve.

 

[JohnW2]

If the only place where the cable is 'in the wall' is where it goes upwards in vertical alignment with the cooker isolation switch then, as you say, that will be fine - that bit of cable would then be in the 'safe zone' created by the isolator. Do I take it from what you are saying that this is the only place where the cable would be buried/concealed in a wall?

This is correct

Thanks. In that case, as I said, all is fine. I suppose that if that had been clear from the start, eric would not have made his comment about safe zones, so that a lot of the subsequent discussion/debate would not have happened.

I'm glad that you found some of this to have been a useful learning experience!

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

I guess all the sockets in my house are out of zone then. Unless this only applies to showers

Any visible socket or switch creates ( so called ) "safe zones" where cables can be run. From each socket or switch there are four safe zones vertically up to the ceiling and vertically down to the floor and horizontally to the edges of the wall.

It is UN-safe to drill into these areas as there may be a cable in them,

And because no one would drill into a safe zone the cables are safe..

Sarcasm to OFF

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was planning on getting it signed off by a qualified electrician who has part P after its finshed which will prove its been installed correctly and more importantly, safe.

What do you mean by "signed off"?

Have you already got an electrician engaged who agrees with what you mean, and is going to do it?

There are 4 ways to proceed with this work.

1) Employ a registered electrician to do the whole lot.

2) Apply for Building Regulations approval in advance, and agree with Building Control who will be doing what inspection and testing when.

3) Go ahead without the required approval, and then try to get an electrician to carry out an EICR, thus leaving you without the required certificate for Building Regulations compliance and without the appropriate Electrical Installation Certificate.

4) Go ahead without the required approval and then get a bent electrician to lie and to give you falsified paperwork.

Which is the route you plan to take?

Im trying to save my self money as you can probably understand and im more then competent at fitting wiring with the correct guidance.

No. You. Are. Not.

Sorry, but you just are not. It is impossible for you to discharge your responsibilities as circuit designer by getting random strangers to answer whatever questions happen to occur to you.

Although iv met some 'skilled tradesmen' who cant do what there paid to do.

And we have all seen people asking here who have no idea what's involved, and who have no idea about the unknown-unknowns danger.

i want to make sure its done right in the first place.

But you aren't doing it right.

They may have the knowledge, which is what im asking for now

No, what you're asking for now is for people to do things which you are supposed to do yourself.

Im an Engineer by trade electrical and mechanical.

Then you should be ashamed to be working outwith your competence.

 

[phatboy]

Your lack of understanding about what you are proposing to take on is scary.

You are not competent in any way.

The questions you are asking suggest you should do nothing more than change a socket faceplate or lightbulb.

An electrician won't sign off your work as their own, thats illegal.

Pay an electrician to do the job. They aren't all bodgers, I have used some fantastic people who can do the job quicker than I can.

 

[bernardgreen]

Don't let the trolls (professionals trying to protect the value in their profession) get you down.

The main intention of these people you call trolls is to prevent those without adequate knowledge creating danger for themselves, their family and property.

I consider myself a reasonably competent DIYer ( self built an entire house in the 1980 ) but will always be open to advice about my present DIY project, the renovation of a 500 year old cottage