Where do I stand ?

[Bowness72]

Hi,

I've got a bit of an awkward situation that I would like some opinions on please. I've just taken my car (2006 Vauxhall Vectra) to the garage for new brake pads and discs. I've been going to this garage for almost 15 years and do trust them not to make stuff up etc. My dilemma is this....

Having taken the car in and being told it was about a 3 to 4 hour job, I then arrived to pick it up late afternoon to find they had encountered problems....

Problem 1..... They found that one of the calipers was sticking so ordered a new one. The one that turned up was wrong so had to go and pick up the correct one. Hence first delay.

Problem 2.... After changing the brake fluid, the pedal went all way to floor so had to keep car to sort out the next day. The garage owner lent me his car to keep me mobile (I think he felt bad because he hadn't phoned me to tell me there were problems).

Problem 3...... The garage owner said he thought problem was master cylinder but would have to check.

I phoned the second day for a progress report after not hearing anything by mid/late afternoon. He said he had replaced the master cylinder but it hadn't really improved the situation so would have to keep the car another day because they didn't know what the problem was.

My dilemma is....Given that I was told it was a 3-4 hour job and would cost about £430 total.....what should I reasonably expect to pay for when the garage thought it was something so replaced it and then it turned out not to be the problem. i.e....should I be charged for the replacement master cylinder and/or the labour involved ?
Also, the same question about the amount of labour involved in trying to identify what the problem actually is ?

I just want to know where people think I stand before I go to garage to find a £1000 bill waiting for me.

Cheers

 

[Belle427]

bit of a tricky one this, the caliper change isnt unusual and this may have been found when the pads were being changed. Cant help with the pedal going to the floor, maybe they did some damage to the master cylinder with the brake bleeding procedure?

 

[jctilingservices]

it is possible that when they pushed the piston back on your caliper, they inverted the seal on your master cylinder, its a possibility and nothing more, how were your brakes prior to going into the garage ?? Some garages change calipers rather than spending time freeing them off, its a quicker way of you getting your car back. If there was nothing wrong with your master cylinder prior to taking it into the garage, you should not be paying parts and labour on it, and especially if the garage did not contact you first and agree this extra cost. that's my take on your situation mate

 

[Bowness72]

I didn't have any problems with the brakes but it had failed the M.O.T. because the pads and discs needed replacing so although they weren't causing me any problems, I can't say they were 110%

 

[jctilingservices]

I didn't have any problems with the brakes but it had failed the M.O.T. because the pads and discs needed replacing so although they weren't causing me any problems, I can't say they were 110%

if they were not causing you any problems and only required changing, I would stand my ground and refuse to pay for the extra parts and labour. The reason I asked how the brakes were originally, if they failed the M.O.T, its possible you had a faulty master cylinder causing the brake readings to be low, i.e fluid getting past the master cylinder seal. but you would have known this really by the feel of your pedal and also the car not responding correctly when the brakes were applied, look at your failure sheet print out and see what the actual reasons were behind them failing the braking system

 

[Porque223]

Should they have known better or is this a once-in-a-lifetime knotty problem which would trip up almost everyone?

 

[Mursal]

Visual check, disks and pads.

Then they renewed the fluid, which can be tricky on some older systems, as it can allow air into the system. They thought, which was correct, that poor internal seals in the master cylinder was holding air. This was leaving the pedal spongy and to dangerous to allow you to drive.

I really hope you appreciate the work the garage has put in, and you continue to give them your trade.

I wonder why larger garages (main dealers) will not work on older cars, even if they sold them new, would this be one possible reason? In this situation, veryone is on a looser.

 

[Burnerman]

I reckon the garage has simply goosed up the bleeding procedure, and have pulled air into the system
Unfortunately although it was only one corner that needed it, the whole system needs bleeding now.
Failed master cylinder.....one hell of a coincidence that!
I wonder if this car is a diesel? With the continuous pumping action of the vacuum pump, the pedal pressure can be drawn further down than usual, but I'm not too sure why!
John

 

[gregers]

bet the apprentice had his fingers in this,dropped a clanger and good ole customer will end up paying for it.

 

[Bowness72]

No, car isn't a diesel.....1.8 petrol.....52,000 miles

M.O.T. failure sheet says...
Front brake pads less than 1.5mm thick
Rear brake pads less than 1.5mm thick
Rear disc bad condition....seriously weakened
Front disc bad condition....seriously weakened

Like I said in original post, I have reasons to trust the garage, based on past experience but I'm just nervous about turning up and finding a £1000 bill waiting for me considering they will have had car at least 2 full days when it was supposed to be a 3 hour job.

3 hours = £430 total inc. parts, therefore 2 days = £1000+ possibly

 

[Porque223]

Ask them if they are willing to assume the risk for additional unforeseen problems, like a 50% cut in price and increasing with each fix that doesn't get you back on the road.
Of course, they may say that replacing all this was necessary, but then, Why didn't they do all that upfront?

From the Web, how much is your car worth?
If it's been good to you so far you 'may owe it money'.
A repair/replace decision is difficult.

I don't know if it's an option in the UK to just leave the car with them. Then they get into the used car business in order to recoup their loss.

 

[Burnerman]

No one can argue about the disc condition, and new pads would always be fitted anyway.
As for the calliper, the car would fail if the brake wasn't releasing, just as it would if the brake wasn't firm enough. The calliper should be around for you to see.
I would be very surprised if the master cylinder was goosed at that mileage though, and if I was doing the job I'd just bleed the brakes on that side - but I'd change the fluid if a) I was asked to b) If the bleed nipples were in good enough condition to unscrew. If they weren't, I'd quote for new rear wheel cylinders too.
3 hours for a full brake job and a calliper is a bit on the tight side, if the brake pipes don't want to come adrift.
John

 

[Bowness72]

Thanks for all the comments, I'll post an update for your interest, and also incase anyone else does a search for something similar in future.

 

[Bowness72]

Update:

Phoned up......they still don't know what's wrong with it.

Now girlfriend is getting very stressed because we are supposed to be driving to lake district first thing Friday morning for long weekend, with 3 kids and all luggage & food etc. It won't all fit in her car.
Time is running out, they've had it since 9:30am Monday, what do I do next ?

 

[Burnerman]

Can the garage still not get pedal pressure?
The best way is to use a pressurised Gunsons Eesibleed kit.....basically the master cylinder is fed with a pressurised supply of brake fluid. You open the bleed nipples one at a time until bubble free fluid comes out. Expect to use about 1/2 a litre of DOT 4 each corner.
John