Wiring a ceiling light-old wiring(black/red) into new wiring

[ninah]

Hi all,
I would be very grateful for some advice with reconnecting my light which became partially disconnected whilst I was trying to reattach the light fitting to the ceiling (the light was currently off, but there was a spark when it fell)

So, coming out of the ceiling are 6 wires in total:
One single black, which has some red tape slightly further up (switch wire?)
Triple red wire
Double black wire

The double black is still connected to the neutral/blue wire coming from the light
But the triple red and single black (with red tape) have become disconnected from the earth and live wires coming from the light

Above the wires coming out of the ceiling I can see them bundled together in either red or white casing. I can also see some earth/green&yellow wires up there as well (but none are coming down through the ceiling)

So my question is, do I attach the earth wire from the light to the triple red from the ceiling, and the live wire from the light to the single black with red tape from the ceiling? Or vice versa? I assume they were all attached in some way or another before the light fell?

Would be grateful for any advice you can give me….
Apologies if this is an obvious question, or has been asked many times before…
Nina

wiring1

• ninah
• 25 Mar 2011
• 2

Wiring1

Wiring2

• ninah
• 25 Mar 2011
• 1

Wiring2

 

[EFLImpudence]

One single black, which has some red tape slightly further up (switch wire?)

Yes, switched Live

Triple red wire

Should be connected together and to nothing else

Double black wire

Should be connected to Neutral of lamp.

The double black is still connected to the neutral/blue wire coming from the light

Correct

But the triple red and single black (with red tape) have become disconnected from the earth and live wires coming from the light

So they should be. Connect single black, with red tape to Line (live) on the lamp.
Connect all Earths together and to Earth on lamp if it has one (unless plastic)

do I attach the earth wire from the light to the triple red from the ceiling,

NO, NO, NO.

You must switch of the power at the fuse or circuit breaker as the wires will still be live even when the light is switched off.

 

[Spark123]

The 3 red wires will be permanently live, if you attach these to the earth terminal it could be dangerous, especially if you have a metal light fitting.

The 3 red wires need to go to their own terminal and do not connect to anything else. If it is a normal ceiling rose then this is often called the loop terminal.
Both the normal blacks go to the neutral.
The black with red tape to the live (lamp)
All earths to the earth terminal.

Can you upload some photos of what you have?

 

[ninah]

Thanks both for you quick replies
I have attached two photos? Can you see them? I have made them viewable to "Everyone".

The light itself is metal (i will take a picture of it tonight) and attach

So i need to attach the single black wire (with red tape), the switched wire, to the brown/live wire on the light. The triple red ceiling wires will be left as is, unconnected to the light. What about the earth wire from the lamp? Slightly concerned that there is nothing for the earth wire from the "metal" lamp to connect too...

thanks again,

 

[EFLImpudence]

You said there were some Green&Yellow wire "up there".
You will have to get them down and connect them to the lamp.
If they are not long enough, another piece of G&Y MUST be used to reach the lamp.

Don't forget to turn off the power.

 

[ninah]

There are currently only three terminals all of which are currently in use by the wires from the ceiling, one is being used by the switched wire, another by the 3 reds, and the third by the two blacks. Do i need to get a 4th terminal? Slightly concerned that the light has been in use for the last few years without being correctly earthed. Thank you

 

[Adam_151]

Yes, get another piece of connector block for the earths, or you might find that when you pull them down from the ceiling there might be one on them already.

If the light was unearthed before than that was wrong, but the earth could have been connected to the others and pushed above ceilinbg and pulled apart when it fell, you don't know, either way, ensure that you *do* connect it this time... AND GET A SOLID FIXING ON THE LIGHT, PREFEABLY INTO A JOIST THIS TIME

 

[Taylortwocities]

The photo you have is the start of correct wiring.

The blue wire goes to the two blacks (as you have already done.
The brown wire goes to the single black that has the red tape on it.

The earth wire (green/yellow) from the light must connect to the earth wires that are up in the ceiling. Use another piece of choc block terminal for that.

It did not matter if the old light was not earthed unless it was a metal fitting.
But do not worry about the old light. Just concentrate on the new light. It is metal and has an earth connection. It must be connected to earth,.

Last thing. Thos three red wires, in the middle of the terminal block. leave them like they are. DO NOT connect anything else to them. Red wires are very aggressive and they bite anybody if they are messed around with, especially if they are from a different colour tribe (they especially hate blues and green/yellows)

 

[EFLImpudence]

You forgot to mention the blacks.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The reds like the blacks.
That's where the ganga comes from.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The reds like the blacks.

Not all of them - some kick up one hell of a fuss if forced into contact with them.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Even if they wear red armbands?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Then the blacks call them live-lovers....

 

[ninah]

thank you so much for all your replies You may be right regarding the earth wire terminal being pulled up above the ceiling when the light fell the first time as i don't remember seeing any loose cables when i was trying to screw the light fitting back to the ceiling. So tomorrow morning i will turn off the fuse for the upstairs lights and have a poke around up there, see if the earth wire i can see in and amongst the black/red wires above the ceiling can be pulled down, hopefully with a terminal connected to it!! If so, I will connect brown to switched wire, and earth to earth. If not, then the metal light was attached without being earthed - yikes. Will keep you posted.

 

[Risteard]

Then the blacks call them live-lovers....

That would be odd given that the blacks are also live.