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oil undercoat under wb eggshell

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deanibusmaximus

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:29 am Reply with quote

I was in a paint shop yesterday, and there was a lady asking for advice on which undercoat to use under F&Ball water based eggshell on interior woodwork.

The advice given to her was to never use oil based uc under waterbased paints because the paint doesn't go on properly and you end up chasing the paint around with your brush. Was this bad advice or not?

I should imagine most people would use water based primer undercoat under F&B eggshell, but if you wanted to go for a really good finish, or if you just wanted to use up some oil uc that is in the garage, is there any reason why you could not use it under wb.

dean
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TheDec

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:58 am Reply with quote

deanibusmaximus wrote:
I was in a paint shop yesterday, and there was a lady asking for advice on which undercoat to use under F&Ball water based eggshell on interior woodwork.

The advice given to her was to never use oil based uc under waterbased paints because the paint doesn't go on properly and you end up chasing the paint around with your brush. Was this bad advice or not?

I should imagine most people would use water based primer undercoat under F&B eggshell, but if you wanted to go for a really good finish, or if you just wanted to use up some oil uc that is in the garage, is there any reason why you could not use it under wb.

dean


There is often within the trade differing opinions regarding your question, however I have done so numerous times and not encountered any problems.

Dec
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misterhelpful

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:02 pm Reply with quote

TheDec wrote:
There is often within the trade differing opinions regarding your question, however I have done so numerous times and not encountered any problems.


The same as Dec says, but must admit I now use water based primer/undercoat more than oil based, mainly because of the quicker drying time.

BTW, welcome back Dec. icon_smile.gif
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TheDec

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:19 pm Reply with quote

Cheers Mr H.

Dec
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dcdec

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:53 pm Reply with quote

Yeah nice to see you back Dec. I think i've mentioned this before that i was always taught that you can put oil over water but not the other way round. I think what can happen is a water based paint can 'split' when applied over oil based.
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TheDec (27 Nov 2011)
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xr4x4

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:07 pm Reply with quote

I painted f&b eggshell over oil undercoat, not knowing that the eggshell was water based.

Was fine apart from the fact that the eggshell 'fish eyed' slighty and I kept having to go over it to make it better.

Ended up needing two coats, when it may only needed one.
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joe-90

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:06 pm Reply with quote

I've never had a problem covering anything over oil undercoat.
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misterhelpful

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:42 pm Reply with quote

I always lightly sand the oil based u/c before applying any finish coat/s so, as long as this has been done, there shouldn't be a problem.

If you think about it, we use oil based undercoat as a cure-all for problem walls and paint over it with water based/acrylic emulsions without difficulty. This should effectively be the same with the woodwork so the argument that it won't work, if you pardon the pun, should hold no water. (SORRY! icon_redface.gif icon_wink.gif )
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TheDec

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:34 pm Reply with quote

Water based over oil, so if you were faced with the application over an oil based system with a water based/acrylic system, how would you deliver both finish and longevity.

Dec
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opps

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:17 pm Reply with quote

xr4x4 wrote:
I painted f&b eggshell over oil undercoat, not knowing that the eggshell was water based.

Was fine apart from the fact that the eggshell 'fish eyed' slighty and I kept having to go over it to make it better.

Ended up needing two coats, when it may only needed one.


When fired earth first went waterbased, i used ob primer on MDF. I too had fisheyes due to the solvents still being released. I had to run the pad over the paint a number of times to eliminate the problem. it wasn't evident with the second coat.

Perhaps a coat of ESP (after the primer) would have helped.

btw- thedec- hadn't realised you had been away, i have not had much time here of late. if i had to laud anyone member it would be you, no disrespect to anyone else.- regards
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elrobbo82

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:22 pm Reply with quote

misterhelpful wrote:
I always lightly sand the oil based u/c before applying any finish coat/s so, as long as this has been done, there shouldn't be a problem.


i would recommend a light sand down between any coats to get rid of any contamination and to leave a decent key for the next coat.

i haven't had any problems applying water based over oil u/c. just make sure you give the u/c plenty of time to dry thoroughly.
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TheDec

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:37 pm Reply with quote

opps wrote:
xr4x4 wrote:
I painted f&b eggshell over oil undercoat, not knowing that the eggshell was water based.

Was fine apart from the fact that the eggshell 'fish eyed' slighty and I kept having to go over it to make it better.

Ended up needing two coats, when it may only needed one.


When fired earth first went waterbased, i used ob primer on MDF. I too had fisheyes due to the solvents still being released. I had to run the pad over the paint a number of times to eliminate the problem. it wasn't evident with the second coat.

Perhaps a coat of ESP (after the primer) would have helped.

btw- thedec- hadn't realised you had been away, i have not had much time here of late. if i had to laud anyone member it would be you, no disrespect to anyone else.- regards


Hi there, opps.

Not so much as been away just very darn busy, never known the workload to be so intense with only a few weeks to the festive season.

Dec
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opps

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:59 am Reply with quote

TheDec wrote:

Hi there, opps.

Not so much as been away just very darn busy, never known the workload to be so intense with only a few weeks to the festive season.

Dec


Tell me about it... I have only had one full day off in the last 5 weeks. Have to go to the USA on the 3rd for a week and then have 2 weeks to fit in about a months work.

Mind you, given the current climate I am happy to work like a dog given that I don't know what's around the corner.
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TheDec

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:46 pm Reply with quote

opps wrote:
TheDec wrote:

Hi there, opps.

Not so much as been away just very darn busy, never known the workload to be so intense with only a few weeks to the festive season.

Dec


Tell me about it... I have only had one full day off in the last 5 weeks. Have to go to the USA on the 3rd for a week and then have 2 weeks to fit in about a months work.

Mind you, given the current climate I am happy to work like a dog given that I don't know what's around the corner.


Cheers for the reply,

You are of course correct with regard to the current climate, that is one of the reasons why I have been rather suprised regarding my workload, and at this time of the year when people are more inclined to be saving their pennies. I think I can honestly say that I have never before experienced such an upturn in the run up to the festive season.

By the way, good luck in the States.

Dec
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opps

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:09 pm Reply with quote

Cheers Dec

Better make sure that I have super clean underwear given that I now get searched twice when flying to the USA (or pulled off for questioning on landing) icon_wink.gif

Billions of dollars on profiling software and I (an atheist with no political affiliations) get pulled because I am milky tea coloured and have a Q in my surname... probably more annoying for my GF and stepson as they have to negotiate with the airline desks as we invariably miss internal interconnecting flights

TBH I would rather carry on working and go in Jan when I expect things to be slightly quieter.

This year has been the quietest I have experienced in the last 15, largely because the cabinet maker that was my bread and butter has resigned. Given that I allowed myself to be reliant on him I used to turn down a lot of "can you also do this?" stuff. Mind you I have managed to more than tick over and probably have a slightly better quality of life with approximately the same income- keeps me in the level of debt that I have become accustomed to!!!

I guess I need to be a tad more disciplined and get prices out to new clients in a more timely manner, and to remind old clients that I still exist.

BTW deanibusmaximus- sorry about going off at a tangent, it is nice to talk to TheDec. He is one of the few people here that I would consider employing, and believe me I am a fussy so'n'so.

Anywho, just finished work 10 mins ago (and my first pint)- time to go to the bar for another. Limited scope for pretending that I spent ages on the tube home, hence i need to drink faster.

Regards
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