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Need advice on using LED lights


 
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OM2

from United Kingdom

Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 314
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:23 am Reply with quote

LED lights - I've bought a few from eBay

Lighting power: pathetic
The sellers claimed the bulbs I was buying were equivalent to 35w
Erm... more like 10w!
I've seen LED lighting in other peoples house and they all seem to be low

What's the solution?
One solution I though of: have more light sockets
Maybe have3 of them to replace one standard light
But then you have the problem of: where and how do you put the new sockets up??

Any advice would be great

Thanks


OM
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sparkiemike

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:11 am Reply with quote

What kind of lamps are you referring to

Are they for use in downlights, or are you talking about ones with the more traditional Bayonet caps and Edison Screw caps
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OM2

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:23 am Reply with quote

in this case, i was referring to normal ones: bc and es

i've also got some downlights as well that i haven't tried yet

but the same question applies to all lights: use led, lights and have lower power consumption + have lower heat - but then you have less light!

what advice would u give?

thanks
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ericmark

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:39 am Reply with quote

Any lamp will produce two outputs plus in some cases a third these are:-
Visible light
Heat
Non visible light or other outputs within the electromagnetic spectrum.

The tungsten light produces all three and although we use the heat and visible light there is waste as we don't want ultraviolet or inferred light however most the other lamps also produce this as well.

So in real terms we look mainly at the heat and many consider the heat to be a waste but of course that will vary according to time of year and where the lamp is fitted.

However when we look at both the LED and Florescent lamp the amount of ultraviolet and inferred light is far higher then with tungsten and the problem is measuring exactly the real (visible) light output as our eyes are not sensitive to all colours at the same amount. So point my camera in the room and read the light available and it will not relate to what we think as to what we can see in the light.

But in real terms the problem is also to do with items within the room converting the light we have all in the 70's gone to dances with ultraviolet lights and seen how certain materials will turn this into brilliant white light and others become near see through much to many girls dismay.

It is the way light is spread and reflected which is the cause of much disappointment and this is not only in the home. I replaced the florescent lamps with low bay lighting in a factory building with 25 foot high ceiling and was very impressed. I then repeated the job on a building with a 10 foot ceiling and it was a flop.

So to advise on lighting one would have to take into consideration all the furnishings in the room. But the area of then lamp does make a huge difference and if we compare a compact florescent lamp used as direct replacements for a tungsten bulb and then a 2D fitting of same wattage the 2D fitting seems to produce far more light. This is further complicated as the coatings used with the tubes vary including in some cases built in reflectors and two 40W tubes can have huge difference in visible light output. Add to this the difference between inductive control gear and HF control gear and varying voltages in our supply and one 40W florescent can give double the output of another per watt used even though the both say 40W.

So even the type of white paint used on the ceiling can give vastly different results. The LED lamp has moved on with leaps and bounds but the angle of light output is limited. So one would need a large number with a low ceiling.

What you have to decide is do you want cheap light or do you want them to look good. I would consider the 2D lamps to be a nice compromise between the florescent strip and the 50mm spot lamp. But it would depend on the room. Spot lamps are designed to do as they say project a spot of light. A ceiling pod aimed at a picture on the wall will do a good job at lighting the picture but not very good at lighting the room.

The problem is our rooms have not been designed to use discharge or LED lighting. Go to a hot country like Turkey where to keep the rooms cool they have used florescent lighting for years and you will see how they have adopted a design to suit. It is common to have for example a 1/3 - 2/3 split in the lights so giving three levels of lighting with two switches and the CFU's are spread even throughout the room so where we would have two light fittings they will have nine.

They have also learnt which materials best reflect the light which since most shops have florescent lighting is not too hard.

We have to compromise and in my case the three bulb chandler was swapped for a five bulb version.
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Derek1287

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Joined: 30 Sep 2011
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Location: Kent,
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:40 am Reply with quote

I have replaced 9 x 50watt halogen downlights with 9 x 6 watt LED's.
The energy saving is incredible. Total of 54 watts against 450 watts !!!

In my opinion they are as bright BUT the light is white as apposed to the yellow/orange cast from most other bulbs.
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Stoday

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:26 am Reply with quote

ericmark wrote:

However when we look at both the LED and Florescent lamp the amount of ultraviolet and inferred light is far higher then with tungsten


LEDs don't produce any ultraviolent light or infurred that's one reason why they are so much more efficient than fluorescent.
icon_lol.gif
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OM2

from United Kingdom

Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:58 am Reply with quote

ericmark: thanks for the awesome reply - i think that's great reading - for me and anyone else reading

ultimately: replacing bulbs with the same number of led bulbs won't work
we'll have to do what u did: replace your 3 light set with a 5 one and use led

but then... that was one of the key questions i was asking: what does one do with a standard room?

where u have the single dangling light point
what do u do then?
the ONLY option i can see is to get more lighting points
but how? what are the best options?

replace with a ceiling spotlight bars??
how hard is it to replace on of these?
do i need to get an electrician or is it simple enough to do myself?
(the instructions that would come with these will be appalling just like most products)

ALSO... how about those you have spot lights
we've got these in 2 rooms
i can't just replace 4 bulbs with 8 icon_sad.gif


let me know
thanks
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sparkiemike

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:38 am Reply with quote

For spot lights and downlights

Kosnic ( www.kosnic.com ) and Phillips ( www.lighting.philips.co.uk ) are doing some great lamps that will be as bright as the 50W

For downlights there is my favorite www.halers.com

Some of the Phillips ES and BC LED lamps look interesting, I have yet to try them.

They are all doing warmer colours to avoid the white light effect.

Even CFL have improved hugely for BC and ES fittings. A lot of them have fast start technology do you don't have to wait for full brightness and dimming options are getting much better. Again warmer colours are available.

Unfortunatly there is a lot of tat in the supermarkets and I would be very cautious about buying anything off ebay.
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sparkybird

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:16 pm Reply with quote

Sadly, as you've found, its a case of getting what you pay for. You need to spend a bit more on decent lamps or fittings for them to actually get anywhere near a comparable light output.
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bernardgreen

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:27 pm Reply with quote

Stoday wrote:
LEDs don't produce any ultraviolent light or infurred
Some LEDs do produce UV and use it to excite phosphers to create the white light LED lamps that a single LEDs element cannot produce as light.
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big-all

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:55 pm Reply with quote

different makes different types they are all different with identical looking performing differently
i have both cool white and warm white versions although one is 300lm and the other is 420 lumens i dont think the difference is the 40% more suggested more like 20-25% as they are equivilent to 50w and 60-65w in my opinion
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/LED+6.3W+High+Power+GLS+/p25780
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ericmark

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:18 pm Reply with quote

In most houses the beams run in one direction and it is often possible to connect a second lamp in one direction. If anything like my house the wrong direction.

Using lighting track is an option I fitted some from Habitat back in the 1970's but I was not impressed and have not refitted it in my new house built 1980.

Normally lifting floor boards is not an option but that is another way to get access.

I have in the past removed plaster board and refilled to route cables but that is a bit extreme.

Using separated extra low voltage will allow exposed conductors and I have seen this used as a lighting track.

But I think I would just get rid of the spot lamps and fit proper units.

However it's then down to she who must be obeyed and what she will allow.

As I have said there are many different ways to get the output including flashing the LED's so quick you can't see them flash so I would be wary and try one first.
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