Superquilt - Any Good?

[glidetrack]

The cottage we are just about to start on has two upstairs rooms. At present, it is just lathe and plaster then the joists/boards/tiles etc.

Plan is to pull the lathe and plaster down (all well worn and cracked) then insulate it to the hilt before plasterboarding on top.

Question being. Superquilt looks interesting and would appear to do the job without taking up too much space whilst leaving an air space for breathing.
Also, very quick/clean by the looks of things.
Downside-Expensive compared to alternatives (see below). However, does that pay for itself in terms of performance long term.

Alternatives would be Kingspan wedged between the joists. Takes longer to do and isnt as draught free.

Cheap B & Q insulation between the joists. £1 a roll makes it hard to ignore however, I suspect it will choke the airflow and not be a good idea.

Any advice?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

This for the roof? Superquilt is a load of baloney, stick to 3 layers of mineral wool. You will have to ensure the airway to eaves is maintained but this is not usually that hard. You can compress it down a fair bit. You can buy proper products to maintain the gap or just improvise with some chicken wire or similar.

If you went the Kingspan route you would just seal any gaps with expanding foam, every bit as draught free if done correctly. PITA for an older property though where joists will inevitably be twisted/at different centres etc.

 

[glidetrack]

Yes, it is for the roof. And yes, it is an older property.

One of the appeals of superquilt was it is is thin. Head space is at a real premium which is why we are considering Superquilt. Three layers of mineral rool may compress down to say 100mm? versus 19mm for Superquilt.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why is headroom a factor?

 

[glidetrack]

It is not a large cottage. Roof height is 2.13m and door frames are 1.68m.

Rooms are built within the roof space so the walls are sloped front and back.

Size wise the rooms are around 3.1m x 3.3m.

So....we want to avoid bringing the walls/ceiling in/down as much as possible, as every cm counts!

My brother is 6'11", so, he is going to feel like Gandalf in Bilbo Baggins house when he comes to visit.

We already reckon all visitors will end up with a red stripe on the forehead for the duration of their stay (from hitting it on the door frames!)

 

[glidetrack]

So sorry for being a newbie and trying to reply with the information quickly as requested (which I have done)

Would say that it didnt merit your response.

 

[mointainwalker]

Freddy gets a bit irate at times, but often gives good advice too. Right Fred ?

I also don't believe that this product works as well as it claims and you have also misunderstood how ( it claims) to work because they don't highlight it as it diminishes the major selling-point of minimal thickness.

The foil has to have a 25 mm closed air-gap on either side ( see the fitting instructions) , so it's not 19 mm , but 69 mm to start, HOWEVER, since it needs a closed air-gap , you have to add the thickness ( and cost) of whatever you use to fit below i.e. plasterboard 12 mm, wood 12 mm - 22 mm etc. You are therefore going to end up with min 80-90 mm. The two air-gaps are required by all foils.


By the way, just another of my bugbears: it is lath and plaster. A lathe is a wood/metal-working machine.

 

[glidetrack]

Cheers for that. I have seent he video you mentioned and also the double quilt method. Double layer makes this start getting VERY expensive.

Mountainwalker..noted lath not lathe.

 

[Orwark]

I have noticed a comment on this forum that states that SuperQuilt is a load of bullonely!

The person that posted this has no idea what he is talking about, the product is fully certified and accepted by all of building control with LABC certification.

It is an exceptional product that provides a high level of performance in a very small space.

It is disappointing to see uninformed and stupid advice given by individuals that clearly do not know what that are talking about.

I would take the time to ask the manufacturers for the right information and your local building control officer if he is happy with the literature and certification.

Ask people who know and not people who are guessing!!!!

Orwark

 

[mointainwalker]

Ask people who know

So what do you know , Orwark ?

The certification documentation http://www.ybsinsulation.com/pdf/certification/Roof/SuperQuiltfullcertification.pdf
shows that the two sealed air-gaps have an insulation value of R 1.23 whereas the quilt is 1.48. It doesn't look very good when good old free air is almost as effective as the very expensive 19 layer insulating material, does it ?

I also recall reading a report from the French certification authority CTSB on a multi-foil they tested ( Tri-Iso) where they said that the sealed air-gaps are very important for this type of product but adding that in practical use it is impossible to achieve the degree of air-tightness necessary and the insulating value was therefore only that of the material.

This means in the case of *your product ( *which I feel sure is the case )the value would only be R 1.5 at a very high cost.

My opinion is also that your product is very expensive for a mediocre performance.

 

[Orwark]

mointainwalker,

I understand your confusion, however, you are looking at the situation far to simply.

SuperQuilt increases the performance of the adjacent cavities and gives an overall performance including cavities of 2.71.

You would simply not achieve this in a standard cavity without the support of the reflective surface.

additionally, Superquilt is not Tri iso, They are two completely different products with completely different properties.

SuperQuilt is tested under EN standard requirements and has full agrement certification.

It has been tested (unlike other products)by notified testing institutes who are governed by EN rules and law, they cannot lie.

In addition. SuperQuilt is an exceptional product for increasing air tightness.

I would recommend that you look at all of the facts and understand them before you comment, If you don't understand then ask as currently the information being posted on this site is ill informed and or incorrect

Orwark

 

[Orwark]

In order to avert any further misunderstanding i would add some authority to my statements.

I am a member of CEN TC89, CEN WG12 and CEN WG13, These are committees and working groups governed by the Center for European Norms and are responsible for the creation of EN standards for insulation products for all of Europe.

CEN WG12 has just completed a new harmonized EN Standard for MultiFoils: PREN ISO 16012.

I am also the President of a European Insulation Confederation and a Director of an Insulation manufacturer for some 15 years

Orwark

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So you work for one of these bogus insulation manufacturer's. Well blow me down what a surprise, didn't see that one coming.

 

[mointainwalker]

@ Orwark

I understand your confusion, however, you are looking at the situation far to simply.

I would recommend that you look at all of the facts and understand them before you comment,

It ill becomes a company rep to be so condescending especially when his reply consists of inconsequential repetition and mostly unproven statements.

Don't do it again or you will have some lines to write out and I won't tolerate spelling, grammar and syntax errors as contained in your post.

When I read through your literature/testing-institute docs a day or so ago, I thought I had seen reference to Hot-Box testing, but cannot find it this time . Was this the test-method ?

It has been tested (unlike other products)by notified testing institutes who are governed by EN rules and law, they cannot lie

No they cannot lie, but have to stick to test methods which are not always relevant to real-life.

Since this was a paid-for test, the institute just tests and gives results.

The CSTB tests I mentioned ( quoted with link on here nearly two years ago, have to do a search ) were an independent series of tests ( possibly carried out with other European national testing bodies ) designed to find out how good multi-foils really were and they published their findings and gave their comments which were that the tested foil only achieved 40% ( ? from memory ) of its claimed performance.

SuperQuilt is an exceptional product for increasing air tightness

I take this to be a typical diversionary tactic i.e. seeming to adress the issue of air-tightness but not doing so.

I think what you are in fact saying is that this stuff is itself air-tight i.e. its structure will not permit any passage of air.

What I was referring to - and I'm sure you understood this - was that the CSTB said that under normal installation situations, it was impossible to achieve air-tightness in-situ and what was thought to be a reasonable installation as would be undertaken a by a reasonably competent person, left sufficient gaps that the air-tightness was substantially compromised.

Since this air-tightness is essential to the efficiency of the product , they considered this a major inherant weakness of multi-foils.

i would add some authority to my statements.I am a member of CEN TC89, CEN WG12 and CEN WG13, These are committees and working groups governed by the Center for European Norms.

I am also the President of a European Insulation Confederation and a Director of an Insulation manufacturer for some 15 years

I have to say that the above statements makes me think that you have a rather over-blown idea of your own importance, especially taken outside the megalopolis of Whitwell.

If by quoting committees and working groups you seek to add some sheen of expertise and/or impartiality to your comments, this is just nonsense. For anyone who doesn't know, these committees are not made up of recognised experts but by representatives of the various groups that are deemed to have a legitimate interest in the subject.

A committee dealing with insulation will therefore have representatives from ( I guess ) housebuilders, Ministry of Energy, consumer bodies and insulation manufacturers.

If you are on these committees as a manufacturer's representative, then your primary interest is to steer legislation as far as you can in a way to help your compaany. There is nothing wrong with that and presumably from time to time you may add something worthwhile to the discussion, but let us not for a moment assume that that automatically makes you any kind of an expert except on your own company's interests.

I am also the President of a European Insulation Confederation

Why you think boasting about being *president of an organisation specifically set-up to promote the sale of its products when trying to convince people of the validity of your views is beyond me. Must relate to the self-importance issue I suppose.

* Ooops, forgot the capital P. Guilty of "lese-majeste" there, I suppose.

 

[Orwark]

mointainwalker

It is extremely clear that you have little or no understanding and certainly no reason to claim knowledgable authority in this matter.

The list of fallacious argument in your last post shows a clear position of ignorance.

If you would like to discuss this subject with a genuine interest in true and factual detail then I would be happy to help, although I suspect by your approach to this matter that you are not interested in learning or for some reason wish to avoid the facts.


“it’s better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.” - Denis Thatcher