Mains Water Pipe Noise - ONLY At Night

[Tidesy]

Hi,

I need help with a problem that's been causing me sleepless nights for weeks! It's driving me mad.

Around 1am each morning, the mains water supply pipe to the house starts vibrating causing lots of noise (sounds like the noise is coming from far away, then reaches a peak and stops for a few seconds, this repeats over and over). The noise stops around 5:30am-6am. We believe it has something to do with higher water pressure overnight. The heating and water are both OFF all night, and go off at 8pm approx at the moment. We live in a semi-detached house and our neighbours claim not to hear the noise in their house.

We have tried the following which does NOT seem to help in any way...

Turning taps on (nothing)
Flushing the toilet (nothing)
Replaced the ball cock in loft water tank (nothing)
Replaced stopcock in kitchen cupboard (nothing)
Turning the stopcock outside down (this reduces water and flow and lessens the noise but does not get rid of the problem totally)
Turning the stopcock inside down (this doesn't really do anything at all unless it is turned completely off and then there is no noise/vibration).
Draining the water tank (nothing)

It is making sleeping very very difficult, can anyone help??? All ideas welcome. I have considered an "Arrestor" or "Pressure Reducing Valve", would that help? Our regular plumber (someone we know and trust) is completely stumped by it. It has only started recently (maybe after we had a leak fixed and a tap replaced?) and we have lived in the house many years.

 

[Burnerman]

I'd still go for a ball valve problem....when it happens next, go into the loft and see if there is a water ripple occuring across the surface of the water in the tanks - remember, there could be a tank for the central heating too!
Type 2 valves should be used in loft tanks, but check the toilets too - with the cistern lids off.
John

 

[Agile]

To properly assess your situation we would need to know what type of boiler and heating system you have and what type of hot water system you have.

Also what mains water stopcock/meter you have and ideally what the day/night pressures are.

Has your plumber friend really looked into this in any significant detail?

I had an interesting chat with a water Co inspector recently when I was doing a boiler repair as he was visiting in respect of a night time noise from the supply leading to the flat above. We were able to come to a conclusion and solution.

Tony

 

[Tidesy]

Thanks for your reply. I have actually been up in the loft while the noise is occuring. The pipe connected to the ball does vibrate (with the noise) as well, but not enough to make the water ripple.

I haven't checked the toilets with the cistern open. When the vibrating occurs, the whole mains water pipe vibrates, the vibration is worse at the stopcock downstairs I think. Could just one toilet cause this much vibration/noise? And what should I look for when the cistern is open?

We have a water tank in the loft and a central heating tank in a cupboard upstairs.

 

[Tidesy]

To properly assess your situation we would need to know what type of boiler and heating system you have and what type of hot water system you have.

Also what mains water stopcock/meter you have and ideally what the day/night pressures are.

Has your plumber friend really looked into this in any significant detail?

I had an interesting chat with a water Co inspector recently when I was doing a boiler repair as he was visiting in respect of a night time noise from the supply leading to the flat above. We were able to come to a conclusion and solution.

Tony

Hi,

Thanks for replying.

Boiler is a Potterton Suprima Condensing.
Heating system is Gas Central Heating I believe.
Not sure what type of 'hot water system' we have?

Until I get a pressure reducing valve I cannot tell what the day/night pressure is unfortunately as I have no gauge to read.

The problem hasn't been looked into in great detail, although its hard for anyone to work out whats wrong when it only happens in the middle of the night. Its a complete nightmare!

What was the solution you came up with, with the inspector? I have heard of similar problems people have had before, when the noise is always happening, however mine is ONLY at night, it never happens during the day (at least not yet!)

 

[Tidesy]

An update...

I had a Pressure Reducing Valve installed yesterday afternoon. Noise still occured but was quieter. Water flow is less strong than it was in the house.

Any ideas on how I can completely get rid of the noise?

 

[Tidesy]

I'd still go for a ball valve problem....when it happens next, go into the loft and see if there is a water ripple occuring across the surface of the water in the tanks - remember, there could be a tank for the central heating too!
Type 2 valves should be used in loft tanks, but check the toilets too - with the cistern lids off.
John

What should I look for when the toilet cistern lids are off?

Many Thanks.

 

[Burnerman]

Feel for any vibration in the loo fill pipe - gently lift the float of the fill valve higher and see if there's any difference. The same applies for any fill valves that you have.
John

 

[leakydave]

I came across a similar problem a few years ago...

same time, every day, vibration noise on water main... no tanks of toilets filling... I ensured all pipes were clipped correctly and not rubbing on timber but no change...

Customer rang Severn Trent who confirmed it was one of their new pumps causing the vibration...

(I did not speak to Severn Trent, just passing on what I was told. Not been back to property since)

 

[Agile]

The solution depends on the cause!

I would have not rushed into fitting a pressure reducing valve. Even if I did decide to fit one then I would need to know the day/night supply pressures so that I would know how to set it. I am not impresed by your plumber who blindly fits it with no information. Thats probably rather typical though!

Sometimes a cheap non return valve is all thats needed. In other cases a shock arrester set to an appropriate air pressure.

So many solutions but each one for a specific problem!

Tony

 

[Tidesy]

I came across a similar problem a few years ago...

same time, every day, vibration noise on water main... no tanks of toilets filling... I ensured all pipes were clipped correctly and not rubbing on timber but no change...

Customer rang Severn Trent who confirmed it was one of their new pumps causing the vibration...

(I did not speak to Severn Trent, just passing on what I was told. Not been back to property since)

Hi, thanks for the reply. I have spoken to Severn Trent who claim the water pressure in my area is fine and have nothing to tell me. They just advised I call a plumber! Did the customer manage to solve the problem of the noise?

 

[Tidesy]

The solution depends on the cause!

I would have not rushed into fitting a pressure reducing valve. Even if I did decide to fit one then I would need to know the day/night supply pressures so that I would know how to set it. I am not impresed by your plumber who blindly fits it with no information. Thats probably rather typical though!

Sometimes a cheap non return valve is all thats needed. In other cases a shock arrester set to an appropriate air pressure.

So many solutions but each one for a specific problem!

Tony

Hi Tony,

It was something I requested as I couldn't think of much else that might help. What is a shock arrester?

The problem still happened last night, but the sound was reduced. The stopcock in the house was still vibrating though each time the noise occured. The PRV is allowing me to have both stopcocks on full (previously causing a loud noise each night), however the water pressure isn't a strong as it was, due to the PRV regulating the pressure I assume? Its currently set at 2 Bar, as 1 Bar was too low to make the shower work.

 

[Burnerman]

Look at Toolstation 93058 for a shock arrestor, or 64117 for an appliance one.
Do you think there's a chance of the problem being the jumper within the stopcock all along? Its also worth checking that its been fitted the right way round.....
John

 

[HERTS P&D]

Damn You John,

After reading all the threads I was going to suggest a split/loose washer on the stopcock which is vibrating at night when more pressure is present.

Andy

 

[Burnerman]

Ahhh perhaps great minds, Andy
Have a great New Year mate
John