kitchen installation

80sman · 18 Sep 2008

This isn't really diy......... as I'd hired in professional(?) fitters from a well known kitchen company.

I have a couple of problems that I'd like information on if possible.

1) The fitters couldn't get the plumbing behind the dishwasher, so they knocked through the plasterboard and have cut away about half the width of the breeze blocks (outside wall) this is under a window. Is this an acceptable pratice, ie is my wall going to fall down. They've also left lots of holes in it where the mortar fell out.

2) By installing the dishwasher (as part of a fitted kitchen) they have managed to make the mains water stop cock inaccessible, is this allowed?

3) The fitters managed to drop something into a wall and split the ring main which in turn blew main fuse outside in the meter, I called out the electric board to replace it, the orginal damage was repired with a block connector. Is this allowed in the kitchen?

4) The dishwasher/oven/hob(gas) are all powered from an extention lead which is further plugged into a (now post kitchen installation) inaccessable socket.

I'm not using the kitchen currently as I'm worried about the safety implications. Any advice would be greatful, I've contacted the kitchen company and they are sending an inspector to look at it, but I was looking for independent information if possible.

Thanks

DoctorC · 18 Sep 2008

sounds to me like the 'professional' fitters should be strung up, and their Company held to account for all this.

As I understand it....

1. raggling into a wall is accepted practice for electrics etc, but it sounds like these guys have over-done it. If it is under a window, it is likely that it will not cause a structural problem, but if mortar has fallen out, exposing the cavity behind, then their are damp, ventilation and insulation consequences. There are tools to do this properly and neatly that do not require brute force and ignorance.

2. Mains water stop-cock is not a stop-cock if you cant tun it on or off! Yes, you need one - either relocated or made accessible. Without access, any plumbing job in your house as become a significant 'puzzle' and any unforeseen incident, like a pipe burst / freeze etc will have enormous consequences

3. dont know, to be honest. Doesn't sound bright, though

4. you should have accessible isolator switch above the worktop which saves you having to access the under-counter wiring. Do you mean an extension lead, or just a longer flex? Sounds dodgy

A letter to the 'well known' kitchen company spelling out all their violations, issued to them in draft, but copied to Watchdog, Which? Local newspaper etc. can work wonders. Tell them the letter gets sent for real if you do not hear a satisfactory response within 48 hours.

Make a BIG fuss now.

What EXACTLY were they contracted to do?

80sman · 18 Sep 2008

Wall cut out

Another view

Worktop incorrectly cut.

The two ends of the extension lead powering the oven/hop/dishwasher the exposed flex is from the oven. I can't actually reach the socket it's about 6" under the worktop, I got the photo by lying under the base unit. The extension lead was then tucked into the back of the oven base unit.

Wiring for hood...... sure doesn't look like the dp isolator referred to in the manual is used..... it also has exposed flex.

Dishwasher installation....... somewhere behind that wood is the stop cock. The wood isn't something I've put in there, thats how it was left post installation.

Damage to ring main wiring, still not sure how it managed to blow the meter fuse....... bit worried about that.

Completed?? Kitchen, sorry about the mess, I hate washing up and I don't want to use the dishwasher.

Rubbish left over.

Not a great job so far, I've contacted the kitchen company and they are sending an inspector? from they're company over tomorrow. To inspect everything, they were contracted to supply and fit a kitchen in accordence with corgi and part p.

80sman · 18 Sep 2008

Also just noticed there's no bonding on the taps or sink......

A £7k bodge.......... expensive

DoctorC · 18 Sep 2008

lucky you have the photos - a lot of the mess is 'hidden'

the wall issue is outrageous, and not acceptable at all. It is unlikely to fall on you, but they should be stripping the whole lot out, and doing it properly.

The wiring also.

Being a major company, did the installers have any trade affiliations?
I would be a little suspect of the gas installation too if this is the standard of workmanship.

You need to kick up one almighty noise about this.

80sman · 18 Sep 2008

one of them was meant to be corgi registered, I'd assumed the electrician was going to turn up later, I couldn't beleive it when they said that was it.

I could kick myself really, I work 7 days on, 7 days off away from home, it's what greeted me when I arrived home!

I have details all on paper of whats required, so I will chase the company about it. Thanks for the info about the wall and stop-cock.

mattysupra · 18 Sep 2008

The wall will need rebuilding! That is shocking what they have done!

You have to be able to get to the stop cock, so this needs moving!

And the electrics are not correct either! Its even missing the earth sheathing in there connector block!

Maybe you should do a post over in the electrics forum with a link back here, the lads over there will tell you whats right and wrong with the electrics!

Mark Br · 18 Sep 2008

a well known kitchen company

Name and shame, the quality of that job is disgusting.

80sman · 18 Sep 2008

Not yet, I must by law give them the chance to put it right, I wont slur someone for contracting in people that were below par, if they didn't know.. It's what they do now thats important.

Hopefully never use those fitters again.

ban-all-sheds · 18 Sep 2008

mattysupra said:
And the electrics are not correct either! Its even missing the earth sheathing in there connector block! !

The electrics are illegal.

Any certificate which says that they comply with the Building Regulations or the Wiring Regulations is falsified, and that adds fraud to the charge sheet.

80sman said:
I wont slur someone for contracting in people that were below par, if they didn't know..

They are supposed to know. They had a legal obligation (Construction Design & Management Regulations 2007) to only appoint competent people.

So you can add that to the list of offences.

plugwash · 18 Sep 2008

80sman said:
3) The fitters managed to drop something into a wall and split the ring main which in turn blew main fuse outside in the meter, I called out the electric board to replace it, the orginal damage was repired with a block connector. Is this allowed in the kitchen?

Block connectors must only be used if they are inside a suitable enclosure and accessible for inspection. Yours is not in a suitable enclosure and it looks like it's about to get burried in plaster.

pompeyal · 18 Sep 2008

My god, I can't believe companies employ cowboys like this, I would be very pi$$ed off if they had been working for me, I would immediatly get on to the company from where you purchased your kitchen and get them to repair or replace all what they have done wrong which looks to me as it is most of it, by the way, if they (and they should) agree to rectify this so called work, let them know you dont want those cowboys back in your house.
PS. Get all the required certificates for any gas and electrical work carried out.

ChrisR · 18 Sep 2008

Looks like they may well have rendered the boiler unserviceable with the cupboard where it is. Look at its manual for installation clearances. All Baxi manuals are at partsarena.com/baxi if you don't have it. If they have created a situation which would not have been permissible for the boiler to have been installed in, they've broken the gas laws even if they're "only" the chippies. [Gas safety (Installation and use) Regulations]

WHile you're at it, make sure that no electric cables are less than 25mm from gas pipes, no electrical switch or socket is closer than 150mm from a gas pipe, that the gas hob connection is copper not a hose, and that it has a gas cock in the pipe. Any inaccessible gas pipe joint must be soldered not compression.
The hob must also be fitted with the manufacturer's fittings, usually clamps, and not a bead of silicone.

Ask for the corgi reg no of any guy doing gas work and look him up on the corgi-gas web site. It is NOT ok to do gas work and get someone else to "sign it off".

80sman · 19 Sep 2008

I'm a little confused by what the manual says, but I think it means that I need a 5mm airgap around it.

"These dimensions include the necessary clearances around the boiler for case removal, spanner access and air movement. Additional clearances may be required for the passage of pipes around local obstructions such as joists running parallel to the front face of the boiler. "

"Where the appliance is installed in a cupboard or compartment, no air vents are required."

The cupboard thats there, I "think" is removable with 2 screws, so not a problem for servicing but some of the clearence dimensions given top and bottom seem quite large, the cupboard has a frame work within the upper and lower clearences.

5mm airgap all around seems right, the rest would be just for access? If access can be gained by quick removal of the cupboard is this ok?

It still means the existing installation is wrong as there is no 5mm airgap down the side.

Steve · 19 Sep 2008

I'd have stopped them as soon as they started chipping that wall and told them to leave my house immediately.

It looks to me like the whole kitchen needs pulling out and starting again. They have done too much damage there.

And having the hood wire on show and plugged in like that is just rough as ****. It seems to me that they didn't have a spark on the team, or on site full stop, therefore couldn't add new electrics for your hood etc, since they wouldnt be compliant with part p. But they should have got a spark to come and check out that damaged cable.

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