Stopcock relocation/excavation

[MrShed]

Hi all,

First time poster (new house) but will be on here lots I suspect, I am NOT a DIYer and need to learn!!!

Anyway, hope you can help with my first query...

I am fitting a new kitchen, and planning on changing some of the orientation of the kitchen.

However, currently the stopcock comes out of the floor roughly 58cm from the wall - as my new kitchen units a 570mm deep, and also the plinth will sit further back than this anyway, I am going to end up with the main water pipe coming out of the floor just in front of the unit....clearly not ideal (in fact, a show stopper).

Questions:

1) Is there a way around this other than full excavation? I.E. - could the ceramic pipe and surrounding concrete floor just be "chipped back" to allow the pipe to come in at more of an angle, and a little bit further back (I only need 5cm!)

2) If so, can you tile over the top of the surrounding ceramic pipe safely so it doesnt impact the floor?

3) If not, does anyone know what a ballpark figure might be for a full excavation and new stopcock being run 10cm back (I do mean ballpark, I realise you couldnt specify without seeing it!)?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[lufcmark]

What type of pipe is your incoming main?...15mm copper? poly? galv?

[MrShed]

Apologies for being a total layman - I dont know...

Up to about 3 cm below the stopcock "tap" itself, the pipe is black and looks plastic/rubbery. Its roughly 20mm in diameter.

Cheers!

[lufcmark]

Sounds like black poly...If you only need 5cm you should be able chip a bit out of the floor and angle it back a bit...Before you do anything though you must check that your external stop tap is accessible and shutting off proper;y...If you damage your incoming below the internal tap and you cannot shut it off externally it'll be misery

[MrShed]

Thanks very much for that....

To follow on from that then, is there a minimum "gap" that you need to leave the pipe in? Obviously the flooring that is being chipped back will need tiling over as it will be in front of the unit, but I read somewhere that you need to allow these pipes at least some space due to flexing when pressure changes?

[holty]

if alcathene be carefull this stuff can become brittle and overbent a nightmare.

[MrShed]

holty wrote:

if alcathene be carefull this stuff can become brittle and overbent a nightmare.

How do I tell?

[holty]

as description it sounds like it

[jddevel]

You could look at this from a different angle. The alkathene pipe ( nowadays blue but older was black) will come into the house POSSIBLY if luck directly under the house wall in line with the stopcock you refer to. It would normally be between 600 and 750mm below ground. So another potential solution is to locate the pipe outside BEWARE WHEN EXCAVATING NOT TO DAMAGE IT ( I always duct mine but that is not common practice) and bring it up outside the house and through the house wall. You could even fit an outside tap ( should include a non-return valve) and be well insulated against freezing- maybe a purpose built cover if aesthetically possible.
The old pipe then becomes obselete and you just need to reconnect existing circuit to new pipe.

[MrShed]

That might have some weight - although what I'm really wanting to do is avoid excavating it down that far if possible, purely for cost reasons - I would need to get someone to do it, as I say I am not a competent DIYer!

That said, it depends how much that kind of job would cost if I got a plumber to do it.

[Goldberg]

jddevel wrote:

So another potential solution is to locate the pipe outside BEWARE WHEN EXCAVATING NOT TO DAMAGE IT ( I always duct mine but that is not common practice) and bring it up outside the house and through the house wall. You could even fit an outside tap ( should include a non-return valve) and be well insulated against freezing- maybe a purpose built cover if aesthetically possible.

This advice is not very good.

1. If it's black and 20mm diameter then it's Alkathene. As holty has already said, be very wary of straining it.

2. Do not bring your cold main up outside the house - that would be (a) unwise and (b) in contravention of The Water Regulations.

3. You can't insulate against freezing - if it's water, and it's outside, and not moving, and below its freezing point, then it will freeze.


I would carefully explore the kitchen floor a few inches down to find out the angle of the rising Alkathene. Since it will come from an outside wall I'm sure you can work out what to expect. If it goes in your favour then you won't need to go down very far to achieve a movement of 50mm without straining it.

If not, then at the very worst you could fit an elbow below the surface of the floor and turn the route of the pipe back under the cupboard location. If you do this then it would be best not to make this joint inaccessible - I would screw a plywood panel over it and take pictures (before tiling) so that you can access it in the future if you have too. If done carefully and 'properly' then the chances of leaking are exceedingly slim. It would be wise to pay an experienced plumber to make on this joint and put a new stop cock somewhere under the cupboard in a way that you can access afterwards.

[MrShed]

Thanks very much Goldberg - good advice.

Got a plumber coming back today so will ask him to look again!!

On an aside, can anyone recommend such an experienced plumber in the Newcastle area?

[jddevel]

I agree with Goldberg regarding freezing and regulations. I did not really explain myself properly and should have expanded on the aspect of building the new entry point in.