Oil gloss? Out.

joe-90 · 13 Apr 2012

I've had it with oil based white gloss. Not using it any more. I'm going over to WB. Three months ago I painted my hall stairs landing with Crown Solo - it's turned into something that looks like a chain smokers home.
I've repainted it with WB satin - and love it.

I can feel a song coming on:

"Night's in white satin........"

If a customer wants white oil gloss - he can find someone else to do it - not me. When it all goes yellow he'll remember what I told him/her.

emilybronte · 13 Apr 2012

I agree totally, although 6 months go I would not have imagined it. I'll stick to oilbased (Weathershield, etc) for exterior work, but once you've got used to w/b, you forget how sticky, smelly and tiresome oil-based is for interior work.

Which w/b hve you tried and liked?

dcdec · 13 Apr 2012

I told you sometime ago that crown solo yellows, but you've always sung its praises, its ok for a tosh but not much else
I have also waffled on this forum about how good sikkens OB is, i've not had yellowing problems with it.
Also mentioned on many occasions how good WB satura is.

Dulux blue lid seems to be ok, they've been burned badly so think the new formulae should be ok, time will tell, plus i have a sneaky suspicion that it IS sikkens recipe, it feels, smells and flows very much like the rubbol az

I do agree that WB is the way forward its just hard to find a decent gloss and i'm not going to paint the whole world in satin!

opps · 13 Apr 2012

In years to come when a house has been diy'd badly on numerous occasions by punters armed with WB, will we be so quick to sing the praises of WB as we try to sand it back?

handyman77 · 13 Apr 2012

Got out the macphersons satin oil based today!
A very thin paint, with not a lot of smell of it! (i think anyway as i got a cold)
Keep my fingers crossed

joe-90 · 14 Apr 2012

Personally I'm not a fan of oil gloss and never have been. I don't like to see timber that looks like its been dipped in plastic.
WB satin will, in my opinion, become the standard finish for wood in the house. The heavy plastic gloss is on the way out. Even if they find a good one - which I doubt as they've had five years to find it - tastes will change.

opps · 14 Apr 2012

In the last 10 years i have only had 4 clients who wanted OB gloss on interior woodwork/furnishings, oddly 2 of them have been this year. Only 2 have wanted OB satinwood. 99% opt for OB eggshell.

BUT only 2 have insisted on WB finishes, on both occasions they had chosen colours from WB only ranges, ie Fired Earth and Farrow & Ball. BOTH were unimpressed by the ease with which they chipped.

WB may well be much nicer to work with but the fact remains that it is far less durable and does not level like OB. Sensationalised stories such as the recent Dulux one will see more punters shift to WB but I suspect that in time many will shift back to OB because of the superior performance.

In my experience the biggest professional adopters of WB have been the kitchen makers who hand-paint units. However, the units are prepared with two pack acid cat and the use of WB eggshell as a finish is down to speed of drying and convenience, not longevity.

WB has improved a lot over the last few years but until it out performs OB I cannot/will not recommend it. I suspect that the next "big thing" for professional users will be two pack WB which in all probability will end up being more durable than standard OB

joe-90 · 14 Apr 2012

I was talking to the guy in Johnstones and he reckons that WB are by far their biggest sellers now. He reckons that hospitals, schools, prisons aren't allowed to use OB due to fumes.
No-one chips their walls so why should they worry about anything else chipping? I reckon OB will be banned on health grounds, it give me migraine (and I don't mean just a headache, I mean in bed all day with a bucket.)
WB or nothing from now on for me.

opps · 14 Apr 2012

joe-90 said:
I was talking to the guy in Johnstones and he reckons that WB are by far their biggest sellers now. He reckons that hospitals, schools, prisons aren't allowed to use OB due to fumes.
No-one chips their walls so why should they worry about anything else chipping? I reckon OB will be banned on health grounds, it give me migraine (and I don't mean just a headache, I mean in bed all day with a bucket.)
WB or nothing from now on for me.

I've had suppliers telling me that OB would be banned for years. They don't care so long as they make a sale.

Thus far the legislation seems to be largely driven by concerns about the health of diyers. If WB proves to be the diyers choice then there will be less pressure to ban OB.

(back in 2010) I would rather have seen OB become a trade only paint with the formulations left intact.

There are far more dangerous products, such as the 2k isocyanate lacquers but these are considered to be trade only products and thus were left alone.

joe-90 · 14 Apr 2012

Is it my imagination or does the post 2010 stuff stink even more than the pre 2010?

dcdec · 14 Apr 2012

OB eggshell was always the worst for me, i'd get a pounding head ache after using it all day.

I really cant tell any difference between post and current 2010 reg paint as far as smell goes, they both stink to high heaven. Hard to say if the new stuff smells worse but from an 'operators' point of view the new reg stuff is no more comfortable to work with than the old, its old been a load of EU blollocks.

I don't think oil based will be banned but as soon as the WB stuff performs and applies as well as OB it will die a natural death

emilybronte · 14 Apr 2012

dcdec said:
Hard to say if the new stuff smells worse but from an 'operators' point of view the new reg stuff is no more comfortable to work with than the old, its old been a load of EU b*****s.

'Hard to say' - why? It's not that hard to say - either it smells and gives you a headache, or it doesn't. In my case, it doesn't. As for 'EU bbollockss', not really. Many of the additives which are now banned are carcinogenic and cancer's no fun at all.The incidence of throat cancer among decorators is much higher than amongst the population as a whole. I'd rather live to see my kids grow up. It would have taken this slack-jawed govt. years to cotton on. Good on the EU, say I.

opps · 15 Apr 2012

emilybronte said:
dcdec said:

Hard to say if the new stuff smells worse but from an 'operators' point of view the new reg stuff is no more comfortable to work with than the old, its old been a load of EU b*****s.

Click to expand...

'Hard to say' - why? It's not that hard to say - either it smells and gives you a headache, or it doesn't. In my case, it doesn't. As for 'EU *******', not really. Many of the additives which are now banned are carcinogenic and cancer's no fun at all.The incidence of throat cancer among decorators is much higher than amongst the population as a whole. I'd rather live to see my kids grow up. It would have taken this slack-jawed govt. years to cotton on. Good on the EU, say I.

I thought that the EU had reduced the levels of toxins rather than baning any of them.

I believe that the primary aim of the 2010 directive was to protect the general public rather than professionals. By and large it is assumed that professionals are aware of the health risks and thus able to take steps to minimise occupational expose to the toxins. In practice many of us pros are lazy/indifferent, I occasionally use 2k without adequate respirators or smoke when using solvent based products but at least I am aware of the theoretical risks.

I would have rather seen the EU ban the sale of OB to DIYers, following a similar path to that taken when the sale of creosote to the general public was banned. Contrary to public opinion professionals are still allowed to use/purchase creosote and many other additives such as lead for paint oxidising.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:164:0007:0031:EN:PDF

With regard to our government being slack jawed, it is difficult for any EU member to unilaterally ban such products.

dcdec · 15 Apr 2012

Don't really get your point Emily, OB paint still stinks.....

simples ...

jondecs · 15 Apr 2012

find blue lid gloss or satinwood .. performs same as pre 2010.
sample boards in garage facing wall in complete darkness since November and still not yellow ~~ better than pre 10 ??
I am happily carrying on as if 2010 didn't happen

ie.. w/b undrecoat and o/b gloss.

decorating merchants will tell you how all the trade peeeps are using w/b as the profit margin is better than o/b. Most have never held a paintbrush in anger.

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Oil gloss? Out.

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