Another Spur Question

diynoob · 13 Jul 2014

Hi,

I want to sort out this eyesore. There's nothing behind the blanking plate, it's an old phone socket. The extension is 4 gang with a small load (5w lamp, cordless phone and a charger) and is hidden in the brick unit.

I was thinking of a spur from the double socket to a switched fcu where the blanking plate is, and then some sockets from the fcu hidden in the unit. I could then brick up the hole and use the fcu to turn off the hidden sockets.

Trouble is the existing double socket is already a spur. Can I go ahead or must it be redone such that the fcu is first?

Untitled

diynoob
13 Jul 2014
1

JohnW2 · 13 Jul 2014

diynoob said:
... The extension is 4 gang with a small load (5w lamp, cordless phone and a charger) and is hidden in the brick unit. ... I was thinking of a spur from the double socket to a switched fcu where the blanking plate is, and then some sockets from the fcu hidden in the unit. I could then brick up the hole and use the fcu to turn off the hidden sockets.

You presumably don't mean that you are thinking of literally making the 'hidden sockets' totally inaccessible - apart from anything else, you will one day want to change what is plugged into them!

diynoob said:
.
Trouble is the existing double socket is already a spur. Can I go ahead or must it be redone such that the fcu is first?

You clearly know the answer. No, you can't spur off that unfused spur - but, as you say, if you put an FCU upstream of that double socket (making it into a fused spur), you can then run as many additional sockets from that one as you like. The total load for all of it (including the double socket) would then, of course, be limited to 13A.

Kind Regards, John

diynoob · 13 Jul 2014

They're not inaccessible, just hidden. That brown lid you can see comes off. It's a pain to do though because its 2 metres long and has various ornaments and lamps etc on it so an external switch would be handy.

There's nowhere upstream of the double to put a fcu. Guess I'll have to replace the existing double. Are there any doubles with a socket on one side and fcu on the other? A bit like the cooker ones but non-ugly?

AndyPRK · 13 Jul 2014

Removed.

JohnW2 · 13 Jul 2014

diynoob said:
They're not inaccessible, just hidden. That brown lid you can see comes off. It's a pain to do though because its 2 metres long and has various ornaments and lamps etc on it so an external switch would be handy.

Fair enough - I just wondered!

diynoob said:
There's nowhere upstream of the double to put a fcu. Guess I'll have to replace the existing double. Are there any doubles with a socket on one side and fcu on the other?

Not as such, but if a single socket were adequate for you, you could replace the box the double-socket is in with a dual (not 'double') box, into which you could put an FCU on one side and a single socket (from which you could then spur) next to it. If you needed to retain the socket as a double, you could put an FCU next to it.

Kind Regards, John

diynoob · 13 Jul 2014

OK Thanks. A single is fine for the existing outlet, it's only used for hoovering. Think I'll put a dual there then and just remove/plaster over the blanking plate.

AndyPRK · 13 Jul 2014

Use the old phone socket for an fcu for the other sockets, so you can turn them off.

Oh I dunno

JohnW2 · 13 Jul 2014

AndyPRK said:
Use the old phone socket for an fcu for the other sockets, so you can turn them off. ... Oh I dunno

An FCU would represent an 'unnecessary fuse', but a (20A) switch wouldn't be a bad idea, for the reason you state (even though some joker will probably mention that you can't get BS1363 switches!). That would also remove the potential issue of putting both solid and stranded conductors into the same terminal ('not recommended'), if the extension lead were 'spurred' directly from a socket.

Kind Regards, John

plugwash · 13 Jul 2014

How about the following soloution

1: bring the original spur cable to the single box, either by pulling it across if the wall is hollow and the cable has enough slack or by joining it behind the double socket with terminal block, wago connectors or similar.
2: on the single box fit a 2-module grid frame with a fuse module and a switch module. Bring the original spur to the fuse first, after the fuse split it to feed the non-hidden socket and the switch, the switch in turn feeds the hidden sockets.

JohnW2 · 13 Jul 2014

plugwash said:
How about the following soloution ...1: bring the original spur cable to the single box, either by pulling it across if the wall is hollow and the cable has enough slack or by joining it behind the double socket with terminal block, wago connectors or similar.
2: on the single box fit a 2-module grid frame with a fuse module and a switch module. Bring the original spur to the fuse first, after the fuse split it to feed the non-hidden socket and the switch, the switch in turn feeds the hidden sockets.

That would certainly work, although grid modules are not necessarily the easiest things for DIYers to deal with. Not being a great lover of 'joins', I would personally probably only do it if the existing cable would reach the single box without having to be extended.

Kind Regards, John

diynoob · 13 Jul 2014

That would have been the ideal solution but the original spur doesn't reach the single box.

A terminal block behind the double, to a switched fcu on the single and then feeding the hidden sockets and looping back to the double too might be an idea. It means I keep the double withe 'downside' that the switch now turns off the double as well as the hidden sockets.

Maybe that would look better than the dual solution, can't say I've seen a dual in the flesh.

JohnW2 · 13 Jul 2014

diynoob said:
That would have been the ideal solution but the original spur doesn't reach the single box.

As I feared. As I said, I personally would prefer not to extend the cable to get around that problem, although it is a perfectly 'acceptable' approach.

diynoob said:
A terminal block behind the double, to a switched fcu on the single and then feeding the hidden sockets and looping back to the double too might be an idea. It means I keep the double withe 'downside' that the switch now turns off the double as well as the hidden sockets.

No, not with what plugwash was suggesting. He was suggesting that you took the existing feed cable (after extension) through the fuse, and then from there (unswitched) to the double socket and also to the local switch module supplying the 'hidden' sockets.

diynoob said:
Maybe that would look better than the dual solution, can't say I've seen a dual in the flesh.

From the room side, it just looks like two single accessories next to one another (with no, or virtually no, gap between them), just as if you had used two single boxes.

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 13 Jul 2014

diynoob said:
Maybe that would look better than the dual solution, can't say I've seen a dual in the flesh.

The only dual boxes I could find on my shelves were 'plasterboard' ones, but the same principle applies with metal ones. I've tried to show roughly what it would look like with an FCU and single socket installed with one of them (apologies for hastily-taken pic!):

Untitled

JohnW2
13 Jul 2014
1

Kind Regards, John

diynoob · 13 Jul 2014

OK Thanks, I'll see if the back box wanted to come out or not. If not I might do something along the lines of the plugwash solution.

diynot

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