Sky+ and TV wiring

Hi all,

My flat currently has the old school TV ariel cable straight in through the window into the back of the TV. I will be getting Sky so I was planning on running the cables from the dish and TV ariel into the loft into some kind of splitter box (if anyone knows of good ones please let me know). From there I would run the sky and TV cables down to a socket behind the TV. I would also put a TV only socket off of the splitter box into the kitchen and bedroom too so I could watch "normal" TV in the other rooms and whatever channel the sky box is on.

Anyway, I believe for sky+ to work there are 2 cables that come from the dish, is this the case? If so are they different signals or is it just a split signal? The reason I ask is because I have seen a few socket face plates with 1 TV socket and 1 Sky socket but very few with 2 x sky and 1 x tv. Would it work if I ran 1 sky cable from the loft to the socket then had a splitter before going into the sky box or do I need 2 separate sky cables right from the dish to the box?

Just to make it clear I am not after any multi-room set up or magic eyes or whatever they are called this is just a single sky box in one room that you can manually tune a tv in another room into.

Thanks

dazjstuart said:

I believe for sky+ to work there are 2 cables that come from the dish, is this the case?

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Yes.

If so are they different signals or is it just a split signal?

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Well, both really.
They are just two signals which your box decodes.
The sky+ box has two tuners.

The reason I ask is because I have seen a few socket face plates with 1 TV socket and 1 Sky socket but very few with 2 x sky and 1 x tv.

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Sky normally just run the double cable through the wall to the tv (no joins or sockets))

Would it work if I ran 1 sky cable from the loft to the socket then had a splitter before going into the sky box or do I need 2 separate sky cables right from the dish to the box?

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Both (the double) must go to the box.

Thanks for the concise answers.

Ok, so I guess I could get the sky guy to fit the dish, take the cables into the attic then down the back of the wall? I have already got a string down and a hole made for a socket. I suppose I could put in a TV socket and just drill a hole in the face plate for the sky cables to come through? I guess I was maybe just over complicating things as like I said I only want sky in the one room?

Then I would only need a simple splitter for the TV ariel up in the loft to give me the sockets in other rooms?

Technically although you can run off one feed you won't get full functionality.

As per the above, you will need two separate cables (albeit usually joined in 'shotgun' fashion) from dish to Sky+ box, you can't split them as per a terrestrial tv aerial.

Look for 'modular' face plates which you can then configure as you wish - in a standard 2G back box I have 2 x sat, 1 x tv aerial & 1 x Cat5e outputs.

The Sky box needs both cables to be able to watch 1 + record 1 or record 2 while in standby.

If you want to use a faceplate, you'll ideally need the very best coax cable, so Webro WF100 or similar.

You can make up your own faceplate by using a modular system:

quad faceplate: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK0184.html
2x f-type connector modules for sat: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK5855.html
1x coax for terrestrial: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK5851.html

plus the relevant back box (flush or surface mounted) and a blanking module unless you can find use for the 4th slot - ethernet maybe (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK5845.html) for the Sky box's network connection.

When we had Sky installed, I pre-ran the cables so they were not visible anywhere externally (the dish is mounted over the entry holes) or internally and got the installer to do a test between having them direct into the box and via the f-type modules. The result was absolutely no difference. My cable runs were about 20m from dish to faceplate, then 40cm or so from faceplace to box. I get over 90% for both strength and quality on the 'Signal Check' page.

The WF100 cable and MK modules are expensive in comparison to others, but they're worth it in this scenario.

PS: Don't buy 'shotgun' cable, certainly not the smaller stuff. Every engineer I've ever had out over the years for a Sky install refuses to use it.

ldoodle said:

The Sky box needs both cables to be able to watch 1 + record 1 or record 2 while in standby.

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That's certainly true, but I've never really understood why a single feed, from a single LNB, could not be 'split' at the receiver end (even if that would require a bit more amplification at the LNB). Does anyone understand why that is not/cannot not be done?

Kind Regards, John

I think it's something to do with DVB-S signal. If you look at a freeview box or Virgin box, they're both single input/dual feed, whereas Sky box is obviously dual input/dual feed.

A DVB-T PCIe card for a PC is also single input/dual feed but a DVB-S PCIe card for a PC is dual input/dual feed, so it's not just the Sky box.

A LNB of the type we use in the UK has four modes (two frequency bands and two polarisation settings). The modes are selected by signals sent by the receiver and different channels require the LNB to be in different modes. That is why a twin tuner box requires two LNB connections (each of which can have it's mode set independently).

Up to eight tuners the norm is just to use LNBs with multiple outputs.

If you want larger numbers of tuners then there you can use a device called a multiswitch. A multiswitch setup normally uses a special quattro LNB which provides seperate outputs for each mode*, the multiswitch then interprets the control signals from the tuners and sends them the required signal.

* Some multiswitches can also generate LNB control signals to allow them to work with a regular quad LNB

plugwash said:

A LNB of the type we use in the UK has four modes (two frequency bands and two polarisation settings). The modes are selected by signals sent by the receiver and different channels require the LNB to be in different modes. That is why a twin tuner box requires two LNB connections (each of which can have it's mode set independently).

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Ah, that explains it! Thanks. I must confess that I had assumed that Sky used a single frequency band with a single polarisation, thereby not needing anything like as 'clever' an LNB as you are describing.

Kind Regards, John

I think you're trying to combine different things. We have done something similar so maybe this info will help. Apologies if I'm telling you stuff you already know.

Sky+ needs 2 coax feeds straight from the dish - one for each of it's inbuilt tuners. This is how it allows you to watch one channel while recording a second. Often the Sky guy will run the cable outside, and drill a hole straight through your wall and wire it straight into your Sky+ box. They use "shotgun" cable, ie two coax stuck together, so it's only one neat hole.

Sky doesn't need an ariel plugged in to work - it receives all the channels via the dish, and sends them to your main tv by HDMI or SCART lead. I believe if you do plug an ariel in then the signal "passes through" so you can watch normal tv with Sky powered off. However, if you plugged that same ariel straight into the tv instead... then couldn't you watch normal tv as normal anyway?

What you do depends on whether you want Sky available in the other rooms. If you're not bothered then simply have Sky installed in the living room and ignore the lack of ariel. The only downside is that you need Sky powered on to watch tv there. Then separately run a cable from the loft ariel to each of your other tv's and watch normal tv on them.

If you want to watch Sky in the other rooms you need a feed to each tv from the coax output on the Sky box. AFAIK this can't be combined with the "normal" tv ariel signal, so it gets a bit complicated. Run a coax cable from the Sky box output to the loft, use a splitter/amplifier there and split the signal to the other tv's. However the other tv's can only "watch" whatever channel Sky is on - ie not also a choice of the normal channels. To have the choice of normal channels you need to also have a normal ariel feed and plug it in instead.

Alternatively, use a magic eye on each other tv and have full control on them. The downside to this is if you want to watch different channels in different rooms.

For socket options have a look at modular stuff like this...
http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/modular-frames-accessories/cat7230010

I use this Sky splitter...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SLX-4-WAY...001?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4620d287f9

For magic eyes we have two of these...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-SKY-P...444?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5afda77b9c

And one of these...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antiferen...968?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5641d733b0

alan333 said:

If you want to watch Sky in the other rooms you need a feed to each tv from the coax output on the Sky box. AFAIK this can't be combined with the "normal" tv ariel signal, so it gets a bit complicated. Run a coax cable from the Sky box output to the loft, use a splitter/amplifier there and split the signal to the other tv's. However the other tv's can only "watch" whatever channel Sky is on - ie not also a choice of the normal channels. To have the choice of normal channels you need to also have a normal ariel feed and plug it in instead.

Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/sky-and-tv-wiring.429733/#3343777#ixzz3UYpNbSEe

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Thanks Alan I think we are on the same wavelength. The setup I have at the moment in my current flat (not the flat in question) The sky comes straight in through the wall to the box, with shotgun cable as you describe. There is a coax socket for the TV ariel in the living room, in this socket I have a 2 way splitter, one goes to my bedroom and the other goes to the TV with the sky box. Using this setup I can watch whatever the sky box is playing in my bedroom by finding the skybox with the analogue tuner. Now I'm thinking about it the coax in the living room may go into the skybox and not the TV, I'll have to check, but I can get freeview on the TV. I think this is what you are on about in the quote above, in which case I believe it can be combined with a normal TV signal?

ETA: I get freeview on the TV in the bedroom through its digital tuner, I pick up the skybox signal through the analogue tuner in the same way as you tuned in an old school VCR.

I am after exactly the same functionality as I have just now as described above with the addition of a further TV in the kitchen. The only reason I want to do it with sockets is for neatness. I am quite happy with the prospect of the shotgun cable coming straight from the dish down the back of my wall, through a socket or even hole in a blanking plate, into the box.

There's a setting in the Sky menu which I had to change for something to do with our multi room setup. It might be to do with getting the magic eyes to work. Maybe if that setting is enabled it can't combine normal tv signal with the Sky one?

In the old days we had sky dish to sky box twin cables and standard aerial to sky box and RF2 from sky box to splitter in loft with digi-eye through ports and from that aerials into every other room and just the TV in same room as sky box had SCART to TV.

However things have moved on with LAN cables multi-room and there are so many options today one can write a book. Once you subscribe you can view on the PC as well as TV and also with fibre broad band down load from internet.

Although normally two cables from dish to sky box there are combiners and splitters that do allow both down the same cable. The same with VHF radio DAB radio, terrestrial TV and the two sky signals you can combine all to one cable then split again if that's what you want.

There are also wireless methods of sending video room to room and so many options it's as said would fill a book.

But best would be to ask in the right section either get this moved or ask again in the Audio Visual section Lucid is very good she it would seems does it all the time Sam Gangee also very helpful.

The RF method is cheap but not the quality of some of the others.

You can combine one sky feed with terrestrial/dab, but not both. I've never come across anything that would combine the two sky feeds, and can't see how it could work.

Combining the sky feed with something else, yes. Combining the two sky feeds with each other, no.