White wires from ceiling rose

judep2000 · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:04 pm Post Subject: White wires from ceiling rose

I am replacing a ceiling rose as the old one has fallen off.

The wire from the ceiling is a single, very thin, old white one that splits into two at the end. How can I work out which is the live (switch ?) wire and which is the other (neutral?).

Thanks

Steve · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:13 pm Post Subject:

Doesn't sound right. Can you upload a photo?

JohnD · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:16 pm Post Subject:

If there are only two cores, then they are probably just the two that you connect to the lamp. The supply and switch cables might be in a junction box between your ceiling and the floor above, or in a round box recessed into the plaster or concrete ceiling; or it might be at the light switch.

A photo would help.

p.s. it sounds like you have no earth, so the wiring is at least 40 years old.
And without a good earth, you must not fit a metal lamp, or metal light switches.

If you can lay your hands on a multimeter (£10 in the high street) then we can tell you how to identify the P and the N by reference to a known earth, subject to the way your house is earthed generally.

If you can post a photo showing your incoming supply, suppliers fuse, and the cables coming out of this and going to your consumer unit (fusebox) and the consumer unit itself, that will help.

judep2000 · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:20 pm Post Subject: Thanks for fast reply

I will take a trip up into the loft, with camera to see what I can find and post back tonight. Thanks

judep2000 · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:38 pm Post Subject: Okay here are photos

You're right about the age of the wiring the house is 1950s.

This is the wire from the ceiling with two 'cores'

This is the new pendant fitting I am trying to put the wires into but not sure which goes where. I have now bought multimeter

This is where the wire goes up into the loft into this 'selective entry joint box'. On the picture it is the wire coming in from the right. I think from here it finds its way down to the fuse box downstairs.

This is my fuse box.

If you need different pics let me know. Thanks

RF Lighting · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:48 pm Post Subject:

I don't mean to be blunt, but you need to stop what you are doing.

All the single insulated wiring going to the junction box needs to be replaced, this includes the one where your ceiling rose is.

The wire that has been used is designed for, and only safe for use on extra low voltage circuits such as doorbells.

There is no earth either at the moment and this should be sorted at the same time.

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JohnD · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:00 pm Post Subject:

He's right!

And I was wrong in thinking your wiring was 40 years old. The bits I can see (the thicker cables with grey PVC sheaths) are reasonably modern, so the house has been rewired at some time. However the thin white bell-wire has been added later by someone who does not know what they are doing. It is not safe and needs to be replaced by a competent person.

Looking on the bright side (such as it is) although it all needs to be checked, it may be that only the white bell-wire needs to be replaced.

I can see you have a lot of junction boxes near the consumer unit, which may be a bad sign as it suggests an amateur upgrade.

Sorry.

I'd suggest you start asking round friends and neighbours for a recommended local electrician. When phoning, ask him if he is a member of a self-certification scheme; which one; how long he's been a member, and what trade name he is registered under (you can check this). If he is not a member of a scheme, he is not suitably qualified for domestic rewiring.

Taylortwocities · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:13 pm Post Subject:

Find one here! www.competentperson.co.uk

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When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on. - F.D.R.

judep2000 · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:13 am Post Subject: Thanks

Thanks for your help.

The amateur electrician was the previous owner.
When I bought this house I had never heard of having an electrical survey done before purchase. I will NEVER make that mistake again! I would still have bought the house but I'd have known what I was letting myself in for.

The new wires are from some new sockets I recently had fitted. If I'd shown you the bottom of the picture you'd see that some aren't connected up as the electrician took the money and then disappeared without finishing the job

Anyway, sounds like I've got to start the hunt for someone else.

Thanks