Am I being led up the garden path???

IR8Matt · 9 Sep 2004

Hi,

We've recently had some building work done on our new house and I'm entirely convinced with our builders electrical skills.

We have one sparky come round but he refused to look at what we wanted doing, saying that he had to check the rest of the house to see if it was safe before he would undertake the work.

I suppose the thing I would like to know is, is this usual practice? If so how much should I be looking to pay for a survey, and is there anyway

I have a feeling that the CU may need to be replaced but not entirely sure.

Thanks

Matt

fubar · 9 Sep 2004

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment - it is good practise to check the existing wiring before undertaking new work.

If you had asked him to perform an inspection, you could expect to pay £40 to £80 for a report but as he has volunteered and has refused to provide a quote for the new work until he has inspected the existing installation I'd expect him to do it FOC.

Do you know how long ago the house was rewired and how old the CU is?

--
Michael

IR8Matt · 9 Sep 2004

we asked the guy to wire in a timer for some undertile heating (now done thanks to this forum's help) but before he looked at it he wanted to inspect some downlighters in the dining room first.

This didn't seem right to me but we let him look. He said the connectors needed to be changed. Fair enough.

He then said the CU needed to be replaced, it doesn't look too old but does look like it may need to be replaced, it looks a bit full and some of the wiring doesn't look too clever. I'll take a photo later and post it, could you tell me u're opinion?

I'm happy to have this all looked at, but this guy just seemed rather abrupt and not particularly helpful.

Cheers

Matt

chappers · 9 Sep 2004

thats sparks for you!!

securespark · 9 Sep 2004

Yeah, he doesn't sound entirely on the level. It is one thing to say that they will not work on an installation unless they have made certain tests and measurements, but to start picking on things like that sounds odd.

I mean, EVERY house I go in has something amiss with the electrical installation, no matter how small. Am I to insist on rectifying things before work commences? I don't think so.

I often write letters to householders eg

While at your property today, I noticed ABC was amiss it needs XYZ doing to bring it up to scratch.

This covers my back so that the householder can't say,

"Well, I didn't know using a 3 bar fire to heat the bath water would frazzle my wife, the electrician came the other day and he did not mention anything was wrong......"

But I can't insist that small problems are rectified first.

NIC sparks often make sure main earth bonding is up to scratch before going ahead with their work, and it is reasonable for any spark to refuse to work on an installation if it is unsafe ie earth loop impedance is up the creek. The problem would have to be rectified before any work went ahead, but I don't think this is usual in the case of minor problems.

IR8Matt · 10 Sep 2004

Thanks for the advice.

So u think the fact he starting checking downlighters in the dining room is a bit odd?

He wouldn't even give a quote to do the work we wanted doing and just said that the CU needed to be changed before he would do it.

All sounded a bit odd to me.

Thanks again

securespark · 10 Sep 2004

IR8Matt said:
So u think the fact he starting checking downlighters in the dining room is a bit odd?

A bit strange.

IR8Matt said:
just said that the CU needed to be changed before he would do it.

As fubar said, it is good practice to check the wiring generally, but I feel it odd that he should make a beeline for the dining room lighting.
Did he say why the CU needs changing?

So in fact he is actually saying that he won't do the work until the CU is changed AND the dining lighting is sorted out?

Did he give you any idea of price for the CU?

IR8Matt · 10 Sep 2004

He gave no indication on how much it would cost to replace the CU. If I remember rightly, he said that because of the building work we had done (kitchen extension, basic loft conversion and a bathrrom converted to a bedroom and bathroom, it was a rather large bathroom previously) the CU was no longer appropriate for the house. I'm not sure whether to believe him as we have had 5 sockets added to the whole house (3 in the new bedroom, 2 in the loft and the kitchen has the same amount as before.) He said that he would have to change that before doing any other work.

I can only assume he didn't want the job, plus the wife wasn't too keen on him either

What sort of cost would I be looking at to have the CU changed anyway? I'll try and get a photo up of the CU at the weekend.

securespark · 10 Sep 2004

Yeah, if you have an old Wylex 4 way, then maybe.

Cost to change CU to split-load with RCD and upgrade main earthing to 10mm2 would be around £450-500.

Why not get another spark (or three) in to quote for you? Don't mention the dining lighting or the CU. Just invite him in and point to the job you want doing and see what he says.

IR8Matt · 12 Sep 2004

Thanks securespark.

I've got picture here, what do u think?

Its not a priority at the moment, but would be something I would like to get changed, of course it will become a priority if u think it needs some attention.

Cheers, and thanks again.

Lectrician · 12 Sep 2004

Very untidy....

Cant see any bonding cables leaving the board....

No RCD for the sockets....

Blanks missing....

Undersized mains tails....

Cover missing??....

Dodgy taped up joint?....

Yep, needs some attention, but wouldnt prevent him doing work on your house. He would need to uprate the main eq earth bonding, and install atleast an RCD for the sockets he installs.

I wouldnt worry too much as to the state of yours, many are worse. I would check the tail size, they look smaller than 16mm (may just be the photo). Also, get some blanks in (espicially if there is no transparent cover for the board).

AdamW · 12 Sep 2004

And replace those taped up joints with junction boxes...

plugwash · 12 Sep 2004

those taped up joints look like they may be to pyro although it is hard to tell does the outer of those short stubs of cable appear to be copper?

i can understand his point of view in todays litigation happy society he doesn't want to work on an install without bringing it totally up to spec

IR8Matt · 13 Sep 2004

Cheers guys for your thoughts, just a few questions / clarifications...

Cant see any bonding cables leaving the board....

What are these?

No RCD for the sockets....

What are the benefits and why should these been in place as opposed to what is there already?

Undersized mains tails....

Are these the two cables that are leading from the board to the CU? Should they match the other red and black cables because they are of a smaller diameter. What are the implications of having these smaller?

Cover is there but I just took it off to take the photo.

I think I can cope with the junction boxes to replace the taped up joins...

Not sure what someone would even do that...

Just one other thing...

those taped up joints look like they may be to pyro although it is hard to tell does the outer of those short stubs of cable appear to be copper?

What do u mean by this?

Thanks again.

Matt

securespark · 13 Sep 2004

plugwash said:
without bringing it totally up to spec

plug in practice, this is nigh on impossible without major rewiring.

what about 1.00 cpc's in rings etc.....

you'd have to check all sockets, switches etc for correct connection, marking of switched lives, sleeving etc...

bonding cables connect to water and gas and any other metallic service pipe to give connection to earth terminal. should be 10mm2 or 16mm2.

rcd for any socket outlet likely to supply equipment used outdoors.

30mA protection.

this is why split-load board is handy.

implications of undersized tails - what do you think the implications are?

think plug has got it wrong about pyro cable. think its black flex, but my eyesight is not what it was.....

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Am I being led up the garden path???

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