Second Hand UPVC conservatory

Oates · 7 Mar 2009

Hi All,
I have seen a conservatory second hand that is perfect for my garden. I don't need planning but need building regs. So, will it be more hassle than its worth as I won't know the spec of the glass etc so would the building inspector refuse to sign it off? Also once dismantled do they go back together OK and is a single course of bricks enough for the base (its full height) as the room its going on is an old converted outhouse so struggling for height?
Cheers Guys

kevindgas · 7 Mar 2009

1 they are a nightmare to reassemble but if your a hands on guy you should be ok
2. a single course of bricks is insuffient but a concrete foundation with a single course of bricks would be ok
so long as the openings are the right height some need 2 courses of bricks to give you the correct height
3 have you got the installation instructions or can you get them (they will give you the correct setting out measurements

Richard C · 7 Mar 2009

You sometimes need PP for a cons. but a cons is classed as a temporary structure &, providing you have an external door between the cons. & main dwelling & any heating system in it is independently controlled, Building Regs. (except for glass & electrics) & “sign off” do not apply. Has this got something to do with it being attached to a converted outhouse? I’m still certain BR’s won’t apply & it would impossible to get a new cons. to comply let alone a 2nd hand one; by the very nature of their design, they are little more heat & energy efficient than yer average shed!

Erecting a 2nd hand cons. can be fraught with problems; getting replacements for any damaged bits & all the seals will almost certainly need replacing now they have been disturbed. Unless it’s virtually free & guaranteed not to be damaged, personally, I would get a new one.

Oates · 7 Mar 2009

Thanks I think BRegs are for the glass (i am just going on what the council have said) but the plan is not to have a door between the conservatory and the existing room to make the existing room bigger as its so small.

When you say seals do you mean the seals between the glass or the plastic trims that snap into the frames and hold the glass in? I've fitted windows and doors before but they were new and never a conservatory?

I wanted one course of bricks as there is a concrete base already that is an old patio (wil check if its OK as a foundation first) and the rest of the house is rendered but there is a single course of bricks all round the bottom painted black so it was to match that.

Richard C · 7 Mar 2009

Oates said:
Thanks I think BRegs are for the glass (i am just going on what the council have said)

Fine, as I said, glass & electrics.

Oates said:
but the plan is not to have a door between the conservatory and the existing room to make the existing room bigger as its so small.

You will not be able to do that for the reasons I said earlier. If you don’t have the external door between the 2, it will not be classed as a cons. (temporary structure) & it will have to comply with ALL relevant BR’s which for any conservatory will be impossible. If you have a BI signing of other work, all you can do is fit an external door between the 2 to get sign off & remove it afterwards; he will never sign a completion certificate for the main conversion without the door. Again, as I said previously, a cons. has relatively lousy insulation characteristics & it will be extremely expensive to heat to a comfortable level in winter.

Oates said:
When you say seals do you mean the seals between the glass or the plastic trims that snap into the frames and hold the glass in? I've fitted windows and doors before but they were new and never a conservatory?

Referring to the roof seals mainly but the sectional side seals & window seals as well could all be suspect.

Oates said:
I wanted one course of bricks as there is a concrete base already that is an old patio (wil check if its OK as a foundation first) and the rest of the house is rendered but there is a single course of bricks all round the bottom painted black so it was to match that.

IMO a patio base, even if structurally sound, will not be suitable as it will not have any damp proof membrane or insulation & to have just a single skin wall would be foolish; it will be damp, cold & you will freeze to death in winter!

^woody^ · 7 Mar 2009

Richard C said:
a cons is classed as a temporary structure

Arrgghhhhh not that old chestnut

There is no such thing as a temporary structure. Under planning legislation a conservatory is treated exactly the same as an extension or any other building work.

Under building regulations, its a conservatory as long as certain criteria is met (separation from the house, independent heating, below a certain floor area, certain areas of translucent material to walls and roof) and as such will be exempt from the building regulations

If the OP wants to have no door between the house and the conservatory, then under building regulations it is not a conservatory but an extension, and will require building regulation approval - which it will never get due to all the glass and the plastic roof

In reality, what happens is people build a conservatory and keep the existing door between the house and conservatory - which means that no build regulation approval is required for the conservatory.

Then once it is finished, the door can be removed and there is nothing the council can do as you are then just doing some 'alterations' which are perfectly lawful.

Richard C · 8 Mar 2009

^woody^ said:
Arrgghhhhh not that old chestnut
There is no such thing as a temporary structure. Under planning legislation a conservatory is treated exactly the same as an extension or any other building work.

Except if it’s classed as a temporary structure!

^woody^ said:
Under building regulations, its a conservatory as long as certain criteria is met (separation from the house, independent heating, below a certain floor area, certain areas of translucent material to walls and roof) and as such will be exempt from the building regulations

If the OP wants to have no door between the house and the conservatory, then under building regulations it is not a conservatory but an extension, and will require building regulation approval - which it will never get due to all the glass and the plastic roof

In reality, what happens is people build a conservatory and keep the existing door between the house and conservatory - which means that no build regulation approval is required for the conservatory.

Then once it is finished, the door can be removed and there is nothing the council can do as you are then just doing some 'alterations' which are perfectly lawful.

Sorry Woody, what’s your point

You’ve just repeated everything I’ve already pointed out!

Oates · 8 Mar 2009

Thanks for the replies. The seller cannot tell me if its safety glass or not as the conservatory was there when they bought the house so its not looking good.

By the way when I said single course of bricks I meant in height not single thickness!

Richard C · 8 Mar 2009

Oates said:
Thanks for the replies. The seller cannot tell me if its safety glass or not as the conservatory was there when they bought the house so its not looking good.

By the way when I said single course of bricks I meant in height not single thickness!

If it’s safety glass, it should have BS kite mark or BS/EN number in one or more corners; there are several standards but they all mean basically the same thing.

You could always hitting one with a hammer, if it shatters into little squares it’s toughened, if it just smashes it’s not!

masona · 8 Mar 2009

^woody^ said:
Then once it is finished, the door can be removed and there is nothing the council can do as you are then just doing some 'alterations' which are perfectly lawful.

Okay, I'm still learning about this, wouldn't the household insurance be invalid?

^woody^ · 8 Mar 2009

Richard C said:
Sorry Woody, what’s your point You’ve just repeated everything I’ve already pointed out!

The point is, there is no such thing as a temporary structure.

As for the rest, confirmed, not repeated

Richard C · 8 Mar 2009

^woody^ said:
The point is, there is no such thing as a temporary structure.

As for the rest, confirmed, not repeated

I picked this little phraseology up on here some considerable time ago & believed at the time it made sense. I have had a little look around & it seems that although there is such a thing as a temporary structure, it’s not relevant in this case & so, as you say, it probably is an “old chestnut”.

Never the less, it doesn’t detract from the basic information given & which you “confirmed” & even expanded on a little

. I will make sure I don’t use it in future!

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Second Hand UPVC conservatory

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