Regs re waste pipes

chimp · 7 Jun 2009

Hello

I rent a council flat and have had the go ahead from the council to swap around the bath and basin to fit a shower.

They mentioned building regs in terms of altering the waste pipes which I will have to do. Culd someone let me know what I should look out for.

Thanks

Richard C · 7 Jun 2009

It's all in here;
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADH_2002.pdf

read it & come back with specifics if you need to

^woody^ · 7 Jun 2009

You don't have to look out for anything. B/regs will not apply

Richard C · 7 Jun 2009

^woody^ said:
You don't have to look out for anything. B/regs will not apply

How dya reakon that one then Woody

^woody^ · 7 Jun 2009

Installing/moving a bit of 40mm pipe and a trap does not require a b/regs application.

Richard C · 8 Jun 2009

^woody^ said:
Installing/moving a bit of 40mm pipe and a trap does not require a b/regs application.

I would agree if that were the case but the OP is also proposing to install a new shower & move the bath & that’s notifyable work;

• basin traps & waste runs are normally 32mm, bath is usually 40mm so the 32mm waste will have to be increased to 40mm;

• new waste connection (ideally directly into the soil stack), size & any venting requirements will be dependant on length of branch & water volume;

• existing branch lengths could also be affected depending on where the OP is moving them to, without knowing the layout, it’s impossible to say;

In fact the council has incorrectly advised the OP & it involves more than just the waste runs;

• remodeling the bathroom will require fitting of forced ventilation if none currently exists;

• existing electrical fittings & lighting may no longer be suitable depending on their age & if any of the electrical safety zones change as a result of installing the new shower & moving the bath

I've lifted this extract directly from the CNC website
http://www.cncbuildingcontrol.gov.uk/frequently_asked_questions.htm

under the heading;

“When do I need BR’s approval;

(ix) to install fittings and appliances within my house that involve
(a) The installation or alteration of the position of a WC, bath, etc?
(b) The installation or alteration of a heating appliance?

^woody^ · 8 Jun 2009

Well you better tell all the kitchen and bathroom installers, and all the plumbers who go out and move a WC pan. And all the other companies (including the OP's own Council) too who do this type of work

I don't see many applications from these guys, not do I seem any BCO's chasing this work up

My view, well renewing (even if refitted to a different place) is maintenance, even installing wastes for new shower to an existing bathroom where there was none previously, is not controlled work. The electrical connection may be, but the retrospective fitting of fans or altering electrics to such a bathroom is not either.

It seems altering a waste trap to a different type would be notifiable too

From your quote from cnc building control, a new or replacement fire or radiator, or fan heater on the wall requires a b/regs application too

I'm sure they are raking the fees in

Richard C · 8 Jun 2009

Like everything else, CNC is now moving towards being run as a self financing business & if & when it gets totally outsourced, it’s gonna get even worse. Unfortunately, personal interpretation of BR’s & weather you agree with them or not is irrelevant. I’m not saying I agree with the over regulated systems that have been introduced & forced on us since around 2000, I’m just pointing out the facts as they are. The odd problem & incorrect installation of waste pipes, windows etc. is trivial but if you know what’s required, it’s just as easy to do it correctly as not to. But in the case of moving a bath or installing a new shower, the implications for existing electrical services & safety zones could be dangerous or, indeed, fatal in certain circumstances. I can tell you from personal experience that changing or adding to an existing electrical circuit can necessitate fitting a new & compliant consumer unit & possibly a partial re-wire in the case of an ageing lighting circuit that has no earth.

I just try to give sound advice to ensure folks are aware of the rules (in some cases the law) & the implications of ignorance or ignoring them may have, particularly if they own the property. Once they know the score, it’s up to the individual if they chose to abide by the advice or not; I certainly won’t lose any sleep if they chose to ignore it.

hotrod · 8 Jun 2009

Hi Rich, I agree there does seem to be some ambiguity regarding the rules on this. However, I don't believe alterations to an existing bathroom is notifiable work.

A new bathroom in a room not previously used as such and work to external services - stack/drainage etc would obviously be classed as notifiable.

I thought I had some documentation somewhere regarding this "stance"/my interpretation but I can't find it. IIRC it had something to do with "material alteration" or "material change of use" but I can't remember

^woody^ · 8 Jun 2009

I was a bit facetious in that reply

Anyway, this type of work only becomes notifiable if the work involves alterations to the actual drain and/or the soil stack. Some say this includes new connections (eg a boss) to the stack, but I don't know if it goes that far - it may be just alterations to the stack in terms of moving or reducing it.

Richard C · 8 Jun 2009

hotrod said:
Hi Rich, I agree there does seem to be some ambiguity regarding the rules on this. However, I don't believe alterations to an existing bathroom is notifiable work.

My local council website & the CNC website are quiet specific, as per the extract I posted; it doesn’t appear at all ambiguous to me!

hotrod said:
A new bathroom in a room not previously used as such and work to external services - stack/drainage etc would obviously be classed as notifiable.

No question about that one.

hotrod said:
I thought I had some documentation somewhere regarding this "stance"/my interpretation but I can't find it. IIRC it had something to do with "material alteration" or "material change of use" but I can't remember

As I said, I don’t think anyone is going to be overly worried about DIY’ers of even some that call themselves tradesmen making a bit of a lash up of the drainage (within reason) but I’m guessing the main reason for requiring notification is that installing a new shower or moving a bath could well breach existing electrical safety zones within the room & if the electrical installation is not up to scratch (RCD protection), it could be the cause of a fatal accident; I’d be interested to hear from the odd "sparky" who may be watching on this one.

chimp · 11 Jun 2009

Thanks for all the replys guys. I have added a few notes below.

I am an electrician so will be sorting all the electrics as required and sending off all the part P stuff etc. Light fitting being changed, 100m extract fan is already in place.

Both existing bath and basin have a separate waste into the main stack 40mm and 32mm respectively.

I think my only problem may be the length of the basin waste.

muggles · 22 Jun 2009

Max run for 32mm pipe is 1.7m, IIRC there's no specific guidance on losses for bends but just try to keep them to a minimum and upgrade the pipe if there's any doubt.

Nige F · 25 Jun 2009

Have a look at Hep V O waste valves ( instead of traps) One of the best inventions of late. Also use swept bends on wastes, Not those awful 90 deg. knuckle bends

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Regs re waste pipes

hotrod

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