Plasterboard ceiling and joint filling help

DJM · 1 Feb 2010

A couple of weeks ago you guys were kind enough to give some advice here on a ceiling for a friend of SWMBOs having a hard time with ex-hubby and money.
She has bravely taken the next step and is moving in and now wants me to try and fix up the ceiling as best I can.
That means I am back for some more practical help on actually doing it.

I intend using 12.5mm board directly onto the current ceiling help in place with 75mm drywall screws directly into the joists. The ceiling although cracked is flat and the additional effort, time and more importantly money for battening doesn’t seem to be worth it.

Taking Richard C’s advice I intend to paint with matt emulsion until money available to skim the ceiling. And this is where the help is really needed.

How do I make the joints look acceptable until the ceiling is skimmed.
Do I:
1) butt the boards closely, then use jointing tape and then joint filler over the top
2) butt about 2 or 3 mm apart, fill the gaps with joint filler, then when dry cover with joint tape
3) Other

Will it be OK to use builders caulk around the edges to seal the gap to walls?

Help much appreciated.

Richard C · 1 Feb 2010

You should always butt the boards close; it’s probably easier to just to fill any slight gaps/screw heads, lightly sand smooth & paint; the joins will almost certainly crack at some point but should look OK as a temporary fix. Problem with putting tape over it now is it will give you an awful lot more work filling & sanding or it will be very visible + you will have to blend in over a much wider area or, assuming your using square edge boards, you will see a hump over the tape. You could use taper edge boards, tape & fill but your getting back to a lot of work again & it's not a permanent solution & won't look much better IMO. What ever you do isn't going to look total quality but that's not the aim; if you just fill the gap & leave it flat, Mr spread will just tape the joints & skim as normal when the time comes. Don’t use caulk & use Easyfill rather than decorators filler.

DJM · 1 Feb 2010

Thanks for the quick reply

You're right that perfection is not the immediate aim, but want to do as good a job as I can without making it more difficult for the plasterer later.

I was going to use the ready mix joint filler, but is this the Easy Fill you meant?

It was the joint between the wall and the ceiling I was thinking of using caulk on. Are you saying I should use Easi Fill on those corners as well?

Richard C · 1 Feb 2010

DJM said:
I was going to use the ready mix joint filler, but is this the Easy Fill you meant?

That’s the one.

DJM said:
It was the joint between the wall and the ceiling I was thinking of using caulk on. Are you saying I should use Easi Fill on those corners as well?

If the boards are close in the corners then a small bead of caulk should be OK but I wouldn’t go filling large gaps with it. It dries to a sort of rubbery consistency & shrinks back quiet a bit but I’ve never tried plastering over it; I do use grab adhesive for several tricks though & know that doesn’t create any problems.

DJM · 1 Feb 2010

Richard
thanks for your help
I certainly hope and expect I am competent enough to get the boards to fit snugly around the room, so maybe I'll try a thin bead of grab adhesive instead then.

DJM · 2 Feb 2010

Just had a thought.
I'm trying to save her money anyway I can, and I can't see anyway I'll use 10kg of Easi Fill - which seems to be the smallest size avaialble. But, I do have a part used bag of one coat plaster I use for small patching jobs. I'm happy to use that to save her money if it will do the trick.
Any reason not to use it?

Richard C · 2 Feb 2010

Personally I hate the stuff but I suppose you could use it as a stop-gap filler! The problem you may find is that unlike Easyfill, “proper” plaster dries quiet hard, is difficult to sand (& not designed to be) has no flex & & will crack fairly easily. One coat plaster maybe the same but it’s a very long time since I used it & I can’t remember.

Try it & if it’s OK, it won’t do any harm but may crack more easily; damp the boards just a little with a kitchen spray before you start so you get good adhesion & if you try hard, you may even get away without any sanding.

gabrielh · 3 Feb 2010

just a thought, those 12.5 mil boards are very heavy, you might want to consider not using the full 8x6 boards but the smaller size. I used to use teh 12.5 for walls but the 9.5 for ceilings. Nobody is going to be tying to hang pictures from the ceiling and so long as you put the black screw every 6 inches there is no reason why it should not be flat. It would save you money and if you are by yourself the 9.5 is the maximim that you will be able to balance on your head while getting the screws in. For the edges; if you need to fill gaps of a couple of inches then try this. Get some short thin battons say a foot long. Put one up through the gap and lie it ontop of the board that you have already fixed, let the end extend out across the gap that you want to fill and over to the wall. Hold the batton in place and put a couple of srews up through the board to hold it in place. Use as many battons a you need. Cut a piece of board to fit the gap, put it in place and srew through into the batton behind it.

gabrielh · 3 Feb 2010

Just noticed that you are thinking of using some left over plaster. DON'T. Plaster has a short date and once opened it is useless after a week or so. It either goes off really quickly or not at all. Mix up a little, and try it first, wait t osee how long it takes to go off and weather the surface is OK. I've used an orbital sander on plaster it's OK but very dusty and time consuming.

DJM · 3 Feb 2010

I'll hope to have a pair of hands to support the other end (got to get the missus to do something lol [good job she doesnt read this forum or I'm dead] lol).
I was going to use the 1220x900 anyway because of the weight, restricted access and getting it home from the shed. I did think about the 9.5 from a weight point of view, but as it doesn't really save any money and the general feeling is that it is a bit DIY, I sort of dismissed it.

Actually checked in the garage and I have a small bit in the opened bag and a new bag of one coat. I'm sure it's not ideal, and I am abit concerned that it will crack, but if it saves her money and at least in the short term gives a passable finish, it must be worth a try.

Richard C · 4 Feb 2010

DJM said:
I'll hope to have a pair of hands to support the other end (got to get the missus to do something lol [good job she doesnt read this forum or I'm dead] lol).
I was going to use the 1220x900 anyway because of the weight, restricted access and getting it home from the shed. I did think about the 9.5 from a weight point of view, but as it doesn't really save any money and the general feeling is that it is a bit DIY, I sort of dismissed it.

Use 12.5mm x 2400 x 1200 boards (that’s 8 x 4 not 8 x 6!) even if you have to pay a small charge to get them delivered form your Local BM. The smaller boards are OK for a bit of DIY, lining out a cupboard but not for re-boarding a ceiling & will work out more expensive; you want as few joins as possible as they will always have a potential for developing cracks in the future. Full size boards are not overly heavy & handling is largely a matter of technique & even a female helper will easily manage (mine does). Make yourself a dead man prop from some timber they are cheap, easy to make & work a treat;
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Dead_man_prop

DJM said:
Actually checked in the garage and I have a small bit in the opened bag and a new bag of one coat. I'm sure it's not ideal, and I am abit concerned that it will crack, but if it saves her money and at least in the short term gives a passable finish, it must be worth a try.

Base & finish plaster will go off quickly if it’s been opened, near date or badly stored. One coat takes a millennium to go off under normal circumstances so will probably still be OK for what you need it for but just mix up a little first to see how it behaves.

DJM · 4 Feb 2010

Thanks to all for posting. Hopefully get it done this weekend.

Richard C said:
Use 12.5mm x 2400 x 1200 boards (that’s 8 x 4 not 8 x 6!) even if you have to pay a small charge to get them delivered form your Local BM. The smaller boards are OK for a bit of DIY, lining out a cupboard but not for re-boarding a ceiling & will work out more expensive; you want as few joins as possible as they will always have a potential for developing cracks in the future. Full size boards are not overly heavy & handling is largely a matter of technique & even a female helper will easily manage (mine does). Make yourself a dead man prop from some timber they are cheap, easy to make & work a treat;
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Dead_man_prop[/QUOTE]I did intend using a dead man prop, but thanks for the link. The difference in price between the larger and smaller boards is about £5 so not onerous. But the key difficulty is the stairs and 180 degree bend at top. The house was extended (badly) in the past and the stair and landing access restricted. The shorter boards can just fit across the landing bannisters to allow the turn. The longer boards wont. So whilst I would rather have the larger boards i can't get them into the room without cutting them

Richard C said:

Base & finish plaster will go off quickly if it’s been opened, near date or badly stored. One coat takes a millennium to go off under normal circumstances so will probably still be OK for what you need it for but just mix up a little first to see how it behaves.

Click to expand...

I know my limitations and plastering is something I'll always leave to the professionals, but as the end finish in the short term is never going to be perfect, I suspect that the one coat will do for the filling. As I am slow at this sort of work, I'll only be mixing small quantities anyway so I'll probably be able to use before it goes off. Time is about the only thing she can consider free, so if it takes overnight to dry then that's not too much of an issue.
As a side issue how bad is adding more water to the mix if it is going off?

Richard C · 4 Feb 2010

DJM said:
As a side issue how bad is adding more water to the mix if it is going off?

It won’t work with conventional Gypsum plaster & is generally not a good idea but may work to a limited extent with one coat plaster, depending on it’s formulation; not sure.

DJM · 1 Mar 2010

Sorry for dragging this back up again, but I just wanted to say a big Thanks! for the help given by all but especially Richard C.

Due to car problems this got delayed by a couple of weeks, but is all done now and the (matt) paint is going on today. It's obviously not a properly skimmed ceiling, but considering what was there before and the fact that the ceiling wasn't as flat as I had first thought it looks OK. Actually it looks better than some of the other ceilings in the house

In the end I did tape the joints and used the one coat, brushing out the edges. When dry I finished the edges with a multi-sander - which was dusty but fairly quick and a lot less elbow grease required. One coat is fairly soft and sands pretty well to give a good finish (yes i know it's not very professional, but as we have said this is a stop gap).

SWMBOs friend is very pleased and at about £50 not too badly out of pocket.

Richard C · 1 Mar 2010

Well done DJM, take 100 brownie points.

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Plasterboard ceiling and joint filling help

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