Wiring for Outdoor Light & Security Light

stevetogo · 9 Jun 2010

Hey every1,

After being put in my place on a previous thread for my thoughts on using an armoured to supply lighting and another CU, I've had to re think my plans altogether. I'm not gonna use the armoured anymore... I'll use it for the CU at a later time.

For now, I need to supply an outdoor light that can be switched manually and provide a permanent supply to a PIR security light.
I want to take a supply from the kitchen ring main by running a cable through the wall from behind a socket to a weatherproof fused switch box mounted on the outside wall. Then, from that box have a permanent supply going to the security light and use the switch in the FCU for the other light.

I know that if I take a spur from a ring main, it must be fused as the 32amp MCB is far too big to protect my lights but if I take a feed from an inside lighting circuit must this be fused too?

What cable should I use outside that can be clipped directly to brickwork without having to be run through conduit?

And, is this work still notifiable to the LABC under part P?

Thanks

flameport · 9 Jun 2010

Black TRS flex is reasonably resistant to sunlight damage, certainly more so than standard T+E.
The work is still notifiable.

Rather than looking for things which are not notifiable, try contacting your local building control department and ask them what the fee for notification actually is. Some areas are significantly less than others.

electronicsuk · 9 Jun 2010

There will likely be no need to further fuse down from a 6 or 10A lighting circuit, unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer of the light fitting.

Many cable can be clipped to brickwork outdoors, although some, such as T+E, are particularly susceptible to damage by UV light and general weathering and so should not be used. Other than that, it depends on the likelihood of mechanical damage to the cable.

Personally, I'd prefer to see something a little more robust than TRS if it's within general reaching distance. HiTuff is a good alternative, although it may be hard to gland straight into a floodlight as it isn't very flexible.

As already mentioned, the work is still notifiable. Either do everything properly and pay the notification fees, or, well...

ban-all-sheds · 9 Jun 2010

stevetogo said:
I know that if I take a spur from a ring main, it must be fused as the 32amp MCB is far too big to protect my lights but if I take a feed from an inside lighting circuit must this be fused too?

But you aren't taking a feed from a lighting circuit:

I want to take a supply from the kitchen ring main...

And, is this work still notifiable to the LABC under part P?

flameport said:
The work is notifiable for several reasons:
.
.
3. The connections to the lights are outside.

electronicsuk said:
Pretty much all work outdoors is notifiable bar a few things. Whether or not the outdoor lighting was a new circuit, this work would still be notifiable.

Also the fact that you are taking the supply for the lights from within the kitchen makes it notifiable.

Have a look at Schedule 2B.

STI · 9 Jun 2010

Isnt the only reason this is notifiable, from the OPs description, is that they are taking the feed from something in the kitchen. If the feed was taken from some other part of the house that is not a special location then it isnt notifiable. (And just read the outside fuse bit

)

I think

Sorry BAS you beat me to it

I wish i could type quicker and read better
Why the outside fuse box why not just run the feed and then a switched 3a FCU inside the house to the light which would enable you to isolate it should future problems occur

bongos · 9 Jun 2010

stevetogo said:
Hey every1,
I know that if I take a spur from a ring main, it must be fused as the 32amp MCB is far too big to protect my lights but if I take a feed from an inside lighting circuit must this be fused too?

If you're using the weatherproof FCU you mention then if you're supplying it from the ring final circuit then just pop the appropriate fuse in the FCU. If you come from the lighting circuit then you wouldn't need to fuse down usually. It's normally easier to use the ring final/radial circuits though due to access issues with the lighitng circuit.

stevetogo said:
What cable should I use outside that can be clipped directly to brickwork without having to be run through conduit?

You could use hituf.

stevetogo said:
And, is this work still notifiable to the LABC under part P?

Unfortunately so. What could be an idea is doing all this external work together and notifying via the LABC for the whole lot. Or a better idea - contact a local spark who is happy for you to do the bulk of the work under their direction. Either way, contact the LABC or local spark before starting any work.

stevetogo · 9 Jun 2010

STI said:
Why the outside fuse box why not just run the feed and then a switched 3a FCU inside the house to the light which would enable you to isolate it should future problems occur

The house is newly decorated and I'm trying to minimize any cutting or chasing for boxes or wires indoors.

But, let me see if I've got this right.... if I take a feed from somewhere other than the kitchen (or bathroom etc) and make all the connections indoors then the work isn't notifiable?!!!

ban-all-sheds · 9 Jun 2010

As long as you also don't have any lights outside¹.

It's very simple. Read down Schedule 2B. If you find something that matches what you are doing then it's non-notifiable. If you get to the end without finding a match then it is notifiable.

¹ There is a slight "loophole" which shouldn't exist - Approved Document P says that if the lights are fixed to the wall of the house, and the cables run entirely inside, then the lighting isn't notifiable. But an outside switch is notifiable, as are lights outside which are not fixed to the house.

bongos · 9 Jun 2010

ban-all-sheds said:
As long as you also don't have any lights outside.

Maybe if steve extended his house over the garden then everything could all be inside and not notifiable.

stevetogo · 9 Jun 2010

bongos said:
ban-all-sheds said:

As long as you also don't have any lights outside.

Click to expand...

Maybe if steve extended his house over the garden then everything could all be inside and not notifiable.

By the looks of things... extending the house would actually be easier!!!!
Maybe I'll just shine some floodlights out the windows

Thanks for the advice

Think I'll stick with the original plan... Feed from kitchen ring, to outside FCU supplying lights with the cable suggested above.

and I'll get round to notifying the LABC asap!!!!!

stevetogo · 9 Jun 2010

ban-all-sheds said:
It's very simple. Read down Schedule 2B. If you find something that matches what you are doing then it's non-notifiable. If you get to the end without finding a match then it is notifiable.

Tbh mate, I've only just realised that schedule 2B is only 2 pages of that document you sent me the link for.
I thought the whole document was Schedule 2B and when I looked at it, my first thought was.... Life's too short!!

Thanks BAS.

That will come in handy for the future.

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Wiring for Outdoor Light & Security Light

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