Faulty electrics

Hi.

I am not a qualified electrician and would never attempt to do anything to complex.

I changed some sockets for my mother in law earlier today and would just like to know some more info to further educate myself.

The work in the house was done years ago.

I changed 4 sockets, but left the fifth alone. It had 4 wires going into each connection and it seemed as if it was to crammed. I'm not 100% if this is allowed, so would like to clarify this.

1 other socket had power coming from the eat cable and after connecting another there was power coming through the screws connecting the face plate.

Any help would be appreciated.

deuce22 said:

1 other socket had power coming from the eat cable and after connecting another there was power coming through the screws connecting the face plate.

Any help would be appreciated.

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How did you test for this 'power' ?

I only used an electric screwdriver.

Thanks.

4 cables in to each terminal, sounds like two individual spurs are connected, this should not be.

deuce22 said:

I only used an electric screwdriver.

Thanks.

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A neon screwdriver? Throw it in the bin and never use it for "testing" ever again. They pick up voltage if you wave it near a live wire.

Buy a multimeter if you want to do some actual testing.

Throw the screwdriver in the bin(cue pic)and buy yourself a multimeter ,£10.00 or so and check again. You should only get "power" between line and neutral.At a voltage of between 220 and 250v. If you get power anywhere else you need to get an electrician in as soon as possible.

Thanks guy's for the advice.

I have a multimeter, but I'm not 100% on how to use it, I will learn and go and check them again.

Am I correct in saying that you are only allowed to spur of a socket once?

At the minute I am just working as a general labourer, and trying to pick up as much info as possible on as many different trades. I can then make up my mind on which trade to specialise in.

I try to work alongside the sparky and plumber as much as possible, because these seem to be the most important trades to learn (even just knowing the basics can make things a lot safer).

What is the purpose of a neon screwdriver if it shouldn't be used for this.

Thanks again.

deuce22 said:

What is the purpose of a neon screwdriver if it shouldn't be used for this.

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To be sold to people who don't know it shouldn't be used for this.

The neon screwdriver is a very good "Extra Safety" item and can high light when the unexpected happens like another electrician using a insulation tester on same circuit your working on.
It is not to test for live or any other testing. There are neon and LED testers that can test the one below is a good example.

These will give a quick test and really is still not a full test. Sockets in the UK often work on a ring system and from that you are allowed spurs. But it is very important that the ring remains intact. When changing a socket it take very little time to test the ring is intact and as electricians we have to complete a minor works certificate which ensures we don't miss out any of the tests.
I do not like the plug in testers but I am a realist and I know the DIY man is unlikely to buy the test set I use at around £750 but is likely to spend £45 on a easy to use tester. When you do any work you should do the following:-
PART 3 : Essential Tests
1. Earth continuity : satisfactory tick box.
2. Insulation resistance:
Line/neutral .......................................MΩ
Line/earth ..........................................MΩ
Neutral/earth......................................MΩ
3. Earth fault loop impedance Ω
4. Polarity : satisfactory tick box.
5. RCD operation (if applicable): Rated residual operating current IΔn ..........mA and operating time of ..........ms (at IΔn)
There are other requirements like stating earth type but I would expect most DIY people would read the above and not have a clue as to what it referred to. But even that does not ask to test ring is a ring and that is one of the biggest problems with a real risk of fire if it is split. People seems to be aware of the shock risk but seem blinkered to fire risk and really that is much more dangerous than the shock risk.

Yes I use neon screwdrivers and I have had circuits made live while working on them including the removal of locks on isolators and so any extra measure to increase safety is good. Theory says there should be no need and a proper permit to work, method statement and risk assessment system should protect one. But mistakes are made. I have seen electricians passes withdrawn because they did not have a proving unit to test the tester. And even on sites as strict as that mistakes still happen. Found 6 electricians working in a building with permit to work and Halon gas was still switched on. All had their passes withdrawn. i.e. sacked. These were all professionals and still the DIY'er thinks he can work safe!

deuce22 said:

Am I correct in saying that you are only allowed to spur of a socket once?

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You can only take one spur from a socket that is part of the existing circuit, the spur can be a single, double or multi-socket-outlet but only one outlet is allowed.
You can install a 13 amp fused connection unit, from a socket-outlet on the existing circuit and run a number of socket-outlets from that.

wingcoax said:

Throw the screwdriver in the bin(cue pic)and buy yourself a multimeter ,£10.00 or so and check again. You should only get "power" between line and neutral.At a voltage of between 220 and 250v. If you get power anywhere else you need to get an electrician in as soon as possible.

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What about line and CPC?

You should not get a reading.

wingcoax said:

You should not get a reading.

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