Electric element for Bathroom Towel Rail

plumbamateur · 15 Feb 2006

I'm installing a heated towel rail in the bathroom, which is plumbed into the central heating, but also has an electric heating element for use when the central heating is off.

I'm planning on wiring the element into a switched fused spur, mounted at the bottom of the bathroom wall. I'd be most grateful for answers to the following.

1. Is the plan as above permissable from a safety / bathroom 'zones' perspective? The planned site for the spur is adjacent to the towel rail and basin (v small bathroom!)

2. Does it matter that the spur is switched? I need some way of switching the element on and off, so can this be on the spur, or does it have to be outside the bathroom?

3. Would there be any way of incorporating a timing device into the circuit? For example, it would be good to be able to time it to turn off once I've gone to work.

4. I have a shower pump, supplied via an RCD. Can I/should I supply the spur via this RCD, or should be only be supplying the shower pump.

Many thanks in advance for answers to some/all of the above.

Qedelec · 15 Feb 2006

Firstly don't forget to bond the exposed metal.
Secondly can you reach the switch with one hand in the bath. Even if you can't I would recomment that the switch is located outside the bathroom and the rail is terminated inside the bathroom in a blanked back box.
Can't see any reason why you cant spur off the pumps circuit as long as it is fused and is adequate for the load.

This is also notifiable work and WILL require a Minor Works Certificate, please, for your own safety, do the testing BEFORE energising.

Pensdown · 15 Feb 2006

Just for information.

In a Bathroom with lets say a nice brass or chrome heated towel tail, connected to the HWS services, it is acceptable to just bond the pipework feeding this, out of sight somewhere in the bathroom, as close as possible to the rail.

You can then measure the earth resistance of the towel rail back to the bonding point and as long as the figure is within the regs you note it along with your comments on the test certificate under "Details of Departures from BS 7671"

The NIC are quite happy with this as most customers do not want an earth strap with a lump of earth cable hanging off their £ 500 towel rail and and I think the view is that they may remove it anyway once you are gone.

As the installer of course, your common sense prevails.

I don't have an opinion on the above, it's just an information note

plumbamateur · 15 Feb 2006

Thanks Qed

I had an incline that this work would have to be inspected by someone, so thanks for the info - I'll make sure it's done before being used.

Does the actual towel rail need to be bonded? Is it not sufficient to bond the copper pipework which supplies water to the rail? The Mrs doesnt patricularly want one of those earth clips on the exposed chrome for aesthetic reasons.

(The electric element itself is supplied with 3 core flex, so will be earthed).

Cheers

Qedelec · 15 Feb 2006

I agree with pensdown on this, we need to sensible abouit bonding.
I would expect to see something in the region of 0.05 to 0.08 Ohms betrween this rail and the Shower cpc (if you have one).

plumbamateur · 15 Feb 2006

Pensdown, you got there first and pre-empted my question! many thanks.

I'll connect the rail to a blanking plate in the wall then, and switch it in the airing cupboard. It isn't within reach of the bath, but I'd rather just go for the safest possible option (being a rather cautious DIY'er

)

plumbamateur · 15 Feb 2006

Qed - you'll have to excuse my ignorance - what's the shower cpc?

should I get an electrician in to do these measurements once I've done the work, or could I do this with a multimeter d'you think?

Qedelec · 15 Feb 2006

CPC = Circuit Protective Conductor
Test must be be done with a low value Ohmmeter.
If you have the confidence to use the equipment and enter these values on the cert. It also requires you to measure Earth Loop Impedance, but I would doubt you have the equipment to measure that. Probably best to call a spark and ask him if he will oblige you.

plumbamateur · 15 Feb 2006

Thank you very much for your advice so far, it's much appreciated.

Any thoughts on Question 3 regarding a way of timing the rail to switch on/off?

Pensdown · 15 Feb 2006

I'm installing a heated towel rail in the bathroom, which is plumbed into the central heating, but also has an electric heating element for use when the central heating is off.

Not sure if you have done the plumbing yet but a tip from friend was to plumb the towel rail into the hot water circuit and not the heating. That way in the summer, the rail is still hot. If you break in before the control valve it will run on your hot water time control and not the tank stat

plugwash · 15 Feb 2006

plumbamateur said:
I'll connect the rail to a blanking plate)

don't use a blanking plate, use a proper flex outlet plate with cord grip.

plumbamateur · 15 Feb 2006

Thanks plugwash. I went and bought one of these. Should do the trick I hope...

securespark · 16 Feb 2006

If it is more than 600mm from the edge of the bath or shower enclosure, you can fit a normal plateswitch as it will be in Z3.

If not, fit a sw spur outside the zones, and a flex outlet as plug suggests.

ban-all-sheds · 16 Feb 2006

Pensdown said:
Not sure if you have done the plumbing yet but a tip from friend was to plumb the towel rail into the hot water circuit and not the heating. That way in the summer, the rail is still hot. If you break in before the control valve it will run on your hot water time control and not the tank stat

How do you know he's not got a combi?

plumbamateur · 16 Feb 2006

Securespark - thanks. It's about 1.5m from the nearest point of the bath, which has a fixed shower screen in place, so unlikely to come into any contact with water.

Regarding the plumbing and fitting the rail into the hot water circuit - that's a really good idea. However, I've done the plumbing and put the floor back down now, and am not going to take it all up again. Good tip, anyway. Should have come onto the forum earlier

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Electric element for Bathroom Towel Rail

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