External Socket

Monkeysoon · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:55 am Post Subject: External Socket

Hi people
I\\\'m intending to spur off an internal socket to have a garden socket on the other side of the wall. I already have an RCD with the consumer unit. Just a couple questions.
A) How do you make sure that no rain can get in the gap between the brick wall and the socket outside?
B) Do I have to protect the 2 core and earth spur cable with conduit all the way from the internal socket (most of it will be in the wall) to the external. If so what conduit, PVC?
C) Does the external socket need to be IP55 or IP56?

Cheers

Steve · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:23 pm Post Subject:

make sure the internal socket is on the ring main.

A) you dont normally. The socket box is completely sealed. water cannot enter from the back . . . unless . . . if the cable is entering from the back, you need to use a fair amount of silicone sealant between the socket and the wall and squish it in there.

B) No conduit is required. If the cable is exposed outside, it really ought to be hi-tuff cable, which resists UV light.

C) IP56. the higher the IP rating the better. MK Masterseal is the best available apparently.

waynesmith · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:02 pm Post Subject: Tips

I agree, as an electrician and speaking from experience I do find masterseal are the best, not the cheapest by far but worth every penny extra.

If you are drilling straight through the back of the internal socket to the outside socket then no mechanical protection is required (coduit etc).

A couple of tips, drill from inside and make your hole run slightly downhill, so if any water did enter the hole it would drain back out and not into the internal socket. once the cable is through put some silicon in the hole but don't fill the back of the masterseal box with the stuff.

Look inside the masterseal backbox and you will see it has drain holes at the back, which ever drainhole goes to the bottom needs drilling out to allow any water that gets in the socket to drain away.

As mentioned in the last post you must only spur the external socket of an internal socket that is on the ring and not one that is already spured of the ring. If you do not understand this, post again and i will go into more detail. Also do make sure it is RCD protected for external use.
wayne

Spark123 · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:30 pm Post Subject:

Legal stuff;
An outdoor socket will be part of a special installation and hence in England / Wales will be notifiable to LABC under Part P of the buiding regs.

Monkeysoon · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:50 pm Post Subject: External Socket

Hi guys
Thanks very much for the advice - v helpful. Yes, the spur would come off a socket on the ring main and yes it would go directly through the wall into the back of the outside socket. Just to clarify, I should fill in the drill hole exit with mastic (after pulling the cable through!), but are you saying its not necessary to actually seal between the brick and the socket (assuming I use a Masterseal) as it has drainage holes going down the back of the case?

Thanks again
Al

Steve · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:27 am Post Subject:

The masterseal sockets are completely sealed all around, so no sealant is required on the back of the socket.

normally, entering from the bottom or sides, you would use a compression gland to seal around the cable, but these cant be used on the back because they project out too much, so i would use lots of sealant around the cable on the back, and then when the socket is in place, seal around the edge of it. And as Waynesmith said, make a small hole (smallest drill you own) in the bottom of the casing, for water and condensation to escape, should any get in.

Monkeysoon · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:16 pm Post Subject: External Socket

Hi people
I've just purchased a Masterseal and I cannot believe these geniuses at MK or wherever haven't considered a scenario where someone might, just might, want to spur from an internal socket straight into the back of an external socket - ie the shortest most efficient route! After all there is no blanking plate in the back of the mounting box. It seems that the only way to get a proper seal (without relying on silicone) is to come in from the sides etc.
Bearing this is in mind, for the sake of safety (winter = rain + wind) I think I should come in from the side. Of course this will mean that I'll need to use conduit. My question is this:-
The hole I will drill from the back of the internal socket will be 12 mm - ample for 2.5mm spur cable. But the conduit (PVC or steel??) is 20mm. To my understanding the conduit will have to go into the wall to make the installation waterproof, but how far will it need to go in? Surely not all the way back to the internal socket? Once I've drilled the hole I guess I'll need to come outside and drill back in with a 20mm bit partway for the conduit?? Then of course the conduit will need to bend 90 degrees to go into the side of the Masterseal. Should I use some sort of elbow or bend the conduit itself??
Sorry thats a few questions come to think of it!

Cheers

securespark · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:46 pm Post Subject:

Spark 123

As I understand it from a recent conversation with someone at the DCLG, items of electrical equipment attached to the dwelling housing the main supply (eg outside sockets, light fittings etc) is not notifiable.

__________________
As George Michael once said, "..if you're gonna do it, do it right, right?"

Monkeysoon · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:08 pm Post Subject: External Socket

Er...OK thanks for that, but what about how to install the socket !?[/list][/list]

Spark123 · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:19 pm Post Subject:

The way I understand it is an outdoor socket is notifiable, a junction box outdoors for lighting is notifiable but an outside light fitting where the cable goes direct is non-notifiable, confused??? The info I was going on is in here: Guidance to approved document P on page 9.
If you read the SI it all appears to be notifiable.

Steve · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:50 pm Post Subject:

these are conduit boxes, they fit flat against the wall and have knockouts in the back, which, i understand, you can connect another piece of conduit to, using one of these.

Be sure to use some of this on the joints.

plugwash · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:56 pm Post Subject:

going in the back is probablly the easiest way even if there isn't a knockout. Just make sure you seal round the cable in the wall (to stop water getting into the house) and seal again where it enters the back of the socket (to stop water getting into the socket.

Steve · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:59 pm Post Subject:

it just seems a bit sloppy to rely on silicone sealant to maintain a seal on electrical accessories.

why has nobody thought of anything better?

Monkeysoon · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:07 pm Post Subject: External Socket

Here here Crafty I couldn't agree more. Its like that other chap keeps saying "If you're gonna do it do it right!". It just seems a bit sloppy thats all.

Monkeysoon · Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:10 pm Post Subject: External Socket

"Female adaptor with bush". I like the sound of that.