distance from sink for 13amp fused spur

[multitradenick]

I have been trying to locate regulations on how far a fused spur switch has to be from the kitchen sink doese anyone know latest regs?

[RMS]

no specific regs to my knowledge,

300mm is common practice.

[lcgs]

Nothing in the OSG or 16th but part p states that a minimum of 300mm is advisable.

[Softus]

See this:
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=31174#31174

[multitradenick]

lcgs wrote:

Nothing in the OSG or 16th but part p states that a minimum of 300mm is advisable.

[dingbat]

lcgs wrote:

Nothing in the OSG or 16th but part p states that a minimum of 300mm is advisable.

Part P actually states, "Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury."

[lcgs]

Part P and the IEE's guide to the building regs state "5.2.2.4 Accessories should be installed a minimum of 300mm from the edge of kitchen sinks and draining boards to reduce the risk of being splashed"

[multitradenick]

dingbat wrote:

lcgs wrote: Nothing in the OSG or 16th but part p states that a minimum of 300mm is advisable. Part P actually states, "Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury."

[multitradenick]

Softus wrote:

See this: http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=31174#31174

[dingbat]

lcgs wrote:

Part P and the IEE's guide to the building regs state "5.2.2.4 Accessories should be installed a minimum of 300mm from the edge of kitchen sinks and draining boards to reduce the risk of being splashed"

Icgs, you are confusing regulations with advice. Part P has nothing to say about how to carry out the work in order to comply; the Building Regulations tell you what you have to achieve, not how you achieve it. The Approved Documents do offer some advice, but in the case of AD-P the main advice is to follow BS 7671. There is no regulation whatsoever that specifies a minimum distance, rather that accessories should be suitable and suitably protected for their location, but the 300mm recommendation is generally recognised as being good practice. This recommendation appears in a number of publications but it is not a rule.

My objection to your posts is simply the inaccuarcy of your terminology.

[lcgs]

Ok i agree not the best wording but from what i've been led to believe the regs when they cahnge to 17th will also include kitchens as they are notifiable under part p and are not covered anywhere yet.i thought part p is the rules and if you work to BS7671 you will fulfill most of the criteria but you need to refer to the part p document and other information to ensure that your work also meets LABC criteria.
we are happy with 300mm if suitability allows though aren't we?

[Spark123]

In a nutshell, Part P is part of the Building regs which are law. In order to comply with P1 of Part P (see dingbats post), one recognised method is to work to BS7671. The wiring regs for other EU member states can also be used instead of BS7671.
The rest of Part P babbles on about whats notifiable and whats not.

[securespark]

It's VERY easy to come on here and berate all the folk who post the building regs about their "advisory" 300mm rule.

The simple fact is that the regs are not specific about distances - all they say is that equipment shall be suitable for the conditions in which it is installed.

So why not take common sense, and use the advisory guidance of the building regs?

Most people here know that putting an electrical accessory too close to a sink is not sensible.
As for us pro's, if we put a switch too close to sink and our customers had an accident, our necks would be on the block. So why put yourselves at risk?

__________________
As George Michael once said, "..if you're gonna do it, do it right, right?"

[didthathurt]

Just to add another little nugget; whilst the 300mm "rule" is, indeed, not a rule at all, one of the defences in common law to a negligence claim is to show that industry norms were followed such that a reasonable group of professionals would consider that the job was done to current professional standards. Conversely, not following such norms would, effectively, shift the burden of proof to the installer such that he or she would have to show why it was reasonable, in all the circumstances of the case, to have worked outside of accepted practises. In a nutshell, it's one of those areas that you'd have to make sure you had a convincing reasoned argument for doing. The Law does not, generally, accept convenience or the avoidance of extra work - even a lot of extra work - as a defence in these areas.

__________________
Being a professional doesn't mean I'm any good - just that I get paid for doing it!

[dingbat]

lcgs wrote:

... from what i've been led to believe the regs when they cahnge to 17th will also include kitchens as they are notifiable under part p and are not covered anywhere yet.i thought part p is the rules and if you work to BS7671 you will fulfill most of the criteria but you need to refer to the part p document and other information to ensure that your work also meets LABC criteria.

Terminology again. Even many so-called professionals have been too lazy to read anything for themselves and have accepted the 'advice' of colleagues, etc, without question. So let's be clear about what we mean.

Kitchens are covered by BS 7671; practically all electrical installations are (read page 11).
But they are not considered a 'special location' - locations with an inherent increased risk due to their nature (water, nakedness, mud and animals, principally... although not necessarily all at the same time. ).

P is just a section/chapter/part of the Building Regulations. The principle means of complying with the single sentence that actually is Part P (see my first post in this thread) is to comply with BS 7671. Part P does not introduce any additional electrical regulations.

Kitchens have been one of the most abused areas of domestic electrical installations and usually house the highest demand appliances, hence their special status for notification, in order to better control the atrocities oft-committed therein.

You must also comply with all other relevant sections of the building regs. This has always been the case (well, since 1965 anyway) but has been largely ignored where building control has not been involved.

LABC enforce those very same Building Regs - those are their criteria.

So, you see, it's all very logical and quite clear if you take the time to understand what everything actually means.