Newbie question - wires too short for ceiling spotlight!

caileag · 30 Mar 2004

Please excuse me if this question is completely stupid, I have searched for an answer with no sucess. Anyway, I am trying to fit a spotlight ceiling light, in place of an existing ceiling rose. All went well in one room, but in the other, the wires seem too short - they disappear back up into the hole in the ceiling and I am scared just to give them a pull!

Is it possible to extend them somehow? In my innocence, I imagine some sort of plastic box..... I know where they need to go, if only they would reach!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions (polite ones, please!)

Caileag.

Big_Spark · 30 Mar 2004

caileag said:
Thanks in advance for any suggestions (polite ones, please!)

Caileag.

My word, what are you implying young lady!!

Seriously, Yes the cables can be extended. Ideally you would use a 20A junction box (has 6 terminals in it), however these are about 75mm in diameter so may not fit into the hole in your ceiling.

If you have access from above, by lifting a floorboard, then you can do it that way, and simply drop a feed down to the light point.

If access above is a non-starter, then you have no choice...Bakerlite connector blocks. These will not be for sale in a DIY store, you will need an Electrical Wholesaler..look for a City Electrical Factors, Newey&Eyre or similar in the area you live. You may also be lucky if you go into a MAPLIN, they may have small junction boxes with a mains voltage rating.

This is NOT a recommended solution, and normal PVC blocks should not be used. After the connections have been made, the blocks should be made safe by taping them up.

Please note, I do not recommend this last method, it should be the absolute last resort when all else has failed.

Let us know if you need any other advice.

caileag · 30 Mar 2004

FWL_Engineer said:
My word, what are you implying young lady!!

My mother always warned me about men who are good with their hands!

FWL_Engineer said:
Seriously, Yes the cables can be extended. Ideally you would use a 20A junction box (has 6 terminals in it), however these are about 75mm in diameter so may not fit into the hole in your ceiling.

Do you mean something like http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=15143&ts=56617?
I will measure the hole in the plaster, see if it would fit. Humour me here, I would just fit the junction box to the existing wiring and add lengths of wire as necessary? What sort of wire? (I did say I was a newbie.)

I will look into this before I consider the second solution you suggest - it scares me!

Do you know, I am ashamed. Granddaughter of a electrician and I am completely stumped by a simple light. Good job he is dead, otherwise the shock would kill him. (No pun intended)

Thanks for all your help, FWL_Engineer!

C.

Big_Spark · 30 Mar 2004

Caleag, yes that is exactly what I mean. They do stock them in places like B&Q, but you need to make sure they have a minimum of FOUR terminals inside them.

You'd be surprised how good I am with my hands (or mayber not)

caileag · 30 Mar 2004

FWL_Engineer said:
They do stock them in places like B&Q, but you need to make sure they have a minimum of FOUR terminals inside them.

I will have a look in B&Q, thanks for the tip. Just normal wire - the stuff they sell for lighting circuits, I presume?

FWL_Engineer said:
You'd be surprised how good I am with my hands (or mayber not)

Time to check my household insurance and warn the neighbours, I nearly have all the information to tackle the task!

I'll let you know how I get on, thanks for the advice, C.

Big_Spark · 30 Mar 2004

Too link the junction box to your shiny new fitting you can actually use a short piece of three core 1.0mm flex, this is slightly larger than the standard 0.75mm flex.

securespark · 30 Mar 2004

Jim

Why 6T?

BG make a small 4T box that will do - L, SWL, N & E.

Should the link be in hard wiring?

Simon

Big_Spark · 30 Mar 2004

Simon, I did say in the next post it needed at least four terminals, so yes that JB would do the job, I have simply not seen one in B&Q..not that I shop there!

Regarding the link from JB to light, Flex is perfectly acceptable, and 1.0mm flex has a higher rating than 1.0mm T&E

journeyman · 30 Mar 2004

It is a shame that many domestic dwellings are wired with loop in ceiling roses. Many people go to B&Q, Argos, etc to buy a four bar spotlight or something similar.

Many people have carpet of wooden floors laid and then decide that they want a new light fitting. Of course they do not want to lift up the new flooring and so the whole junction. gets bodged into the small space available in the fitting, or worse; a connector strip gets used and pushed into the cavity.

I would never do such a thing, but it is obvious that these things will happen.

It makes more sense to wire up a house with junction boxes. This would make it easier for less able DIYers to replace the ceiling rose with spots or a candelabra.

I know that people who do not have the knowledge should leave the electrics alone, but in the real world that does not happen. These things should be taken into account when designing a domestic installation.

This is just my opinion, so put your flame throwers away, and give constructive arguments only.

Big_Spark · 30 Mar 2004

Well the easiest solution would be plug-in cieling roses or something similar mounted INSIDE the floor void. That way all the terminations would be out of the way of the light, and all you would need a small plate screwed to the ceiling through which to pass flex to whatever type of fitting you so desired..

The problem is that if you want to alter the switching or do an real testing, you still need to life the floor!

In a domestic situation it is a no win situation, but there are ways to make it easier.

journeyman · 30 Mar 2004

FWL_Engineer said:
Well the easiest solution would be plug-in cieling roses or something similar mounted INSIDE the floor void. That way all the terminations would be out of the way of the light, and all you would need a small plate screwed to the ceiling through which to pass flex to whatever type of fitting you so desired..

That is a pretty good solution, although the plug in roses I have seen on TLC-direct have quite a large plug. That would mean a big hole. Not much good with some bar type spotlights. At least a junction box presents a single cable at the hole. With the new colour scheme coming in soon, how could anybody go wrong; just match the colours.

securespark · 31 Mar 2004

Small JB's (4T) are 59mm dia.........

Big_Spark · 31 Mar 2004

securespark said:
Small JB's (4T) are 59mm dia.........

smaller than standard, but still a big hole in your ceiling, far larger than is desirable

securespark · 1 Apr 2004

Be Ok in a limited range of apps - lots of dom lt fttgs have oversize plates, cups or roses that will cover a hole that size.

kendor · 5 Apr 2004

caileag said:
Please excuse me if this question is completely stupid, I have searched for an answer with no sucess. Anyway, I am trying to fit a spotlight ceiling light, in place of an existing ceiling rose. All went well in one room, but in the other, the wires seem too short - they disappear back up into the hole in the ceiling and I am scared just to give them a pull!
Is it possible to extend them somehow? In my innocence, I imagine some sort of plastic box..... I know where they need to go, if only they would reach!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions (polite ones, please!)

Caileag.

Go on give it a little pull, you never know you might be pleased when it grows longer!

Seriously though, there may be some slack in the void most good sparks will leave a little slack, just make sure the circuit's dead first.

diynot

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Newbie question - wires too short for ceiling spotlight!

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