Fuse board / consumer unit change - EIC / EICR required?

[baker332]

Hi all,

My electrician is moving and replacing the fuse box soon to an updated RCBO one.

As I understand a certificate should be provided after the completion of the change, is this an EIC or EICR - which is required? This is not a rented property.

Thanks

 

[ericmark]

Two documents, one is the EIC electrical installation certificate, and second is the compliance or completion certificate, if the electrician is a scheme member it is a compliance, if working through local authority building control (LABC) then a completion certificate.

I have found one some times are just given a link and you need to down load certificates, it seems we are living in a paperless society.

 

[baker332]

Two documents, one is the EIC electrical installation certificate, and second is the compliance or completion certificate, if the electrician is a scheme member it is a compliance, if working through local authority building control (LABC) then a completion certificate.

I have found one some times are just given a link and you need to down load certificates, it seems we are living in a paperless society.

Thanks - I've found the EIC certificate online:

https://electrical.theiet.org/media/2818/bs7671-eic.pdf

Would I expect the electrician to write this up and provide a copy on the day of install, or should this come in the post through the council? Does it cost them to submit anything?

 

[ericmark]

The EIC is a free down load from the IET web site so costs next to nothing, it is in real terms a check sheet, so one does not miss out essential tests, and it also shows the electrician likely did inspect and test the installation, he could guess the results, but unlikely, so it's his get out of jail for free card, so he can say it was OK when I left, look I tested it and these are my results. But no law to say he must make one out, but he would be daft not to.

The completion or compliance certificate however does cost, either his annual subscription to the scheme provider, or fees to the LABC, in Wales it costs £100 plus VAT, English LABC can set their own fees, issuing one or the other is a legal requirement, not for all jobs, but in England and Wales the Part P of building regulations requires in a dwelling which is a building, (caravans are not buildings no not covered by building regulations but are still dwellings) does require notification for a consumer unit change.

The odd bit is it is the building owner, who has to ensured either the LABC is notified, or the electrician is a member of a scheme, this is why it is not permitted to display any scheme logos or anything else which may lead the owner to think he is a scheme member if he is not.

I had solar panels fitted, and all the paper work was made available on line or emailed so I could print at home, I personally think this is wrong, as have not got the guys signature, but it seems this is how it is done today.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thanks - I've found the EIC certificate online:


Would I expect the electrician to write this up and provide a copy on the day of install,

Probably not but within a few days to complete.

or should this come in the post through the council? Does it cost them to submit anything?

If he is a 'registered' electrician then he will notify his registration body for a few pounds then you will receive a 'compliance certificate' within thirty days from them and they notify the council.

If he is not a registered electrician then YOU must notify the local authority for a lot of pounds before the work is begun and they will tell you what to do.

 

[baker332]

Thanks all,

The thing is he is suggesting an EICR is to be carried out at an additional cost, I think it's probably good practice to do so but not essential.

My concern is that the EIC and the completion of compliance certificate is all that is actually required here. But perhaps if I ask for both then more will be charged (hence the ask for costs) for the fuse box install rather than having everything on the EICR.

I'm in the process of an extension with local BC involvement I assume they will ask for EIC and compliance certs then..

 

[EFLImpudence]

The thing is he is suggesting an EICR is to be carried out at an additional cost, I think it's probably good practice to do so but not essential.

Some (lots) say that that is a good idea, or indeed a must, but I could never justify the additional cost and time.

Plus what happens when something is discovered and the electrician says that's two hundred pounds for EICR please but I cannot fit a new CU because of...?

My concern is that the EIC and the completion of compliance certificate is all that is actually required here.

Compliance Certificate from registration body or Completion Certificate from LA - it's not supposed to make sense.

That is all that is required but if he insists on an EICR first, what are you going to do?

But perhaps if I ask for both then more will be charged

I cannot think it would be done for nothing.

(hence the ask for costs) for the fuse box install rather than having everything on the EICR.

?
You have to have an EIC for a new CU.

I'm in the process of an extension with local BC involvement I assume they will ask for EIC and compliance certs then..

Are the extension electrics not included in the BC involvement?

Edited EICR

 

[ericmark]

I'm in the process of an extension with local BC involvement I assume they will ask for EIC and compliance certs then..

The electrics can be part of the BC involvement or you may need the compliance certificate, often just a tick box with the original application.

The LABC may charge you to do an EICR which you may not get, they are not required to give you a copy, and it would be done by an electrician of their selection, not yours. Some electricians do pay extra on there scheme membership to have the EICR covered by the scheme, but anyone who thinks they have the skill can complete an EICR, it could be done by some one who has only done an on line course.

So as a result the EICR does not show if the home is safe, it should do, but since anyone can write them out, the LABC normally have a list of electricians they trust, and it needs to be completed by some one on their list.

In the main the EICR is done before a fuse box is replaced with a consumer unit, to highlight faults before it is changed, so for example if your central heating has an earth fault, which will trip a RCD, one wants to know before it is put on RCD protection so fault is rectified before the box is swapped.

I did not do an EICR first, and there was a problem that one set of lights was using the wrong neutral, as an electrician I soon found it and corrected, but had I not been an electrician not doing the EICR first can lead to unexpected expense correcting faults. But once the CU is fitted and an EIC is completed it is very little extra to also do an EICR but since not rented personally seems little point.

 

[baker332]

Some (lots) say that that is a good idea, or indeed a must, but I could never justify the additional cost and time.

Plus what happens when something is discovered and the electrician says that's two hundred pounds for EIC please but I cannot fit a new CU because of...?


Compliance Certificate from registration body or Completion Certificate from LA - it's not supposed to make sense.

That is all that is required but if he insists on an EICR first, what are you going to do?


I cannot think it would be done for nothing.


?
You have to have an EIC for a new CU.


Are the extension electrics not included in the BC involvement?

He wants to do the EICR after the fuse board change. If it's not required then I will as for the EIC and compliance certificate or completion certificate from LA.

 

[baker332]

The electrics can be part of the BC involvement or you may need the compliance certificate, often just a tick box with the original application.

The LABC may charge you to do an EICR which you may not get, they are not required to give you a copy, and it would be done by an electrician of their selection, not yours. Some electricians do pay extra on there scheme membership to have the EICR covered by the scheme, but anyone who thinks they have the skill can complete an EICR, it could be done by some one who has only done an on line course.

So as a result the EICR does not show if the home is safe, it should do, but since anyone can write them out, the LABC normally have a list of electricians they trust, and it needs to be completed by some one on their list.

In the main the EICR is done before a fuse box is replaced with a consumer unit, to highlight faults before it is changed, so for example if your central heating has an earth fault, which will trip a RCD, one wants to know before it is put on RCD protection so fault is rectified before the box is swapped.

I did not do an EICR first, and there was a problem that one set of lights was using the wrong neutral, as an electrician I soon found it and corrected, but had I not been an electrician not doing the EICR first can lead to unexpected expense correcting faults. But once the CU is fitted and an EIC is completed it is very little extra to also do an EICR but since not rented personally seems little point.

Interesting knowledge on the EICR thanks for this, the additional charge for the EICR is £270 (10 circuits 3 bed house).

 

[EFLImpudence]

He wants to do the EICR after the fuse board change. If it's not required then I will as for the EIC and compliance certificate or completion certificate from LA.

Oh ok - no point doing it after.

You shouldn't have to ask for an EIC and compliance certificate; they come with the job (with registered electrician).

 

[baker332]

Oh ok - no point doing it after.

You shouldn't have to ask for an EIC and compliance certificate; they come with the job (with registered electrician).

Thanks for clearing that up, the old saying goes, you don't know what you don't know..

 

[ebee]

Plus what happens when something is discovered and the electrician says that's two hundred pounds for EIC please but I cannot fit a new CU because of...?

Then, providing not a fraudulent move, the electrician is absolutely correct.
A few times I have advised an EICR prior to CU change then if the customer agrees all well and good, if not then add for doing some testing along the way. Never do a CU change without some minimum checks by inspecting and testing. You would never connect and power up a CU without proper testing.

 

[baker332]

Then, providing not a fraudulent move, the electrician is absolutely correct.
A few times I have advised an EICR prior to CU change then if the customer agrees all well and good, if not then add for doing some testing along the way. Never do a CU change without some minimum checks by inspecting and testing. You would never connect and power up a CU without proper testing.

tbf he's priced in issues after the CU change/move, well that's what he said at least so not sure why EICR is suggested now or even required.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Then, providing not a fraudulent move, the electrician is absolutely correct.

...and, no doubt, a happy customer.

A few times I have advised an EICR prior to CU change then if the customer agrees all well and good,

Why only a few times?
People here make out it is standard practice and should always be done.

if not then add for doing some testing along the way. Never do a CU change without some minimum checks by inspecting and testing. You would never connect and power up a CU without proper testing.

I quite agree.
So do you test everything again at CU change after your EICR has disconnected and reconnected various parts.