My pond keeps becoming a mudhole! Lost water!

[Mickymoody]

I have a pond in the back garden, established, with fish, that were tiddlers when introduced, but are now 6-8" long, and fat buggers!

They have had a varied life, with a rockery collapse, pump, and UV light failures, but last winter was harsh for them.

The UV lamp, and hence pump was left running to alliveate a frozen surface, but overnight the water was frozen solid, the pump stopped, and the pond was mainly ice, say 2 feet thick? and the pond maybe 2.5feet deep?

The fish then had 3" of water once the ice thawed, but the pump was no more.

Filled the pond up, and the water was gone, after 2 days, back to 3" level. Even though the pump isn't working.

Filled it up again, and it holds water, for a few days. Then water returns to 3" again...

The pond is bedded in clay, with a liner, and can't see any leaks in the liner.

There is nothing flooded in the general area of the pond, so where is all the water going? Why does it hold water for a few days, then lose all the water? No rips or tears in the liner, and its clay lined anyways..?

Fish aren't really happy, as my fish goes to bite my partner when she feeds them, and vica versa when I feed her fish, as they normally like to be stroked, aka tickled trout..but these are Carp.

 

[Steve]

You have a leak! When ice freezes it expands. Water is the only thing known to man that expands when it turns to a solid.

Anyway, the freezing ice can expand the liner (when the liner is cold it can also turn brittle and break easily, depending on quality).

Only solution I can think of it a new liner INSIDE the old one (so as not to disturb the existing established liner).

And I cannot believe that the pond froze 2 feet of ice, to be honest. Maybe a few inches, but not 2 foot. But the winter's bad weather does make me wonder if sales of pond heaters have gone up in preparation for next winter.

My pond fared ok - no fish lost, pump ran constantly and reliably. Only ground to a halt 2 weeks ago when blanketweed clogged it up.

 

[seco services]

sounds like a wind up to me.

as said can't see it froze 2ft.
as for the rockery collapse aswell sounds like you never spend much time
on preparing it when you built it.

i've never had my pond freeze in 15 yrs.

sounds like a cheap liner you have not a butyl one.

as for keeping carp in a 2.5ft pond is another thing.

 

[dextrous]

Not entirely convinced this is a plumbing problem

 

[mickyg]

pond is to shallow for those fish. move fish, dig deeper or buy a pond heater.
the liner has a hole, replace it with a good quality butyl one.
buy a decent pump that won't fail when it gets a bit cold.
if your pond froze 2ft you must live in the antarctic.

 

[snico]

You have a leak, prob caused by the shifting of the glacier in your pond!

Fish are too big for your depth, make the pond deeper and put in a new quality liner and fit a decent pump

 

[Mickymoody]

Forums are funny places..nobody remembers the bad Winter we have just had..A wind up because the excavated earth wasn't bedded down, and hence caused a landslide into the pond (with waterfall), as it was newly excavated, Carp (ie Goldfish) can't live in a pond 6 feet x 4 feet, but live happily in a bowl on top of a TV, not a plumbing problem, where water is pumped around a system that no longer works, 3 feet of water isn't deep enough, refer back to goldfish bowl, buy a decent pump (err I did), it broke, and you have a leak, NO?

My Op post says the pond is lined in CLAY and a LINER, WHERE is the water going, randomly. Water can't displace itself, and go into the water table, the leak must show itself somewhere nearby, especially through a liner and CLAY.

Get a pond heater? These aren't tropical fish. They are used to living outside.

The pond is 3 feet deep, the ice was solid enough not to break, and the bottom of the pond could not be seen. On thaw, there was 3" water left.

Contempt breeds deceit, so most useless thread ever! As you don't believe there is an issue, other than 'There is a leak', I didn't ask that.

 

[holmslaw]

Fish aren't really happy, as my fish goes to bite my partner when she feeds them, and vica versa when I feed her fish, as they normally like to be stroked, aka tickled trout..but these are Carp.

Sound more like piranha to me, when did you last count you're fingers?

 

[seco services]

Carp (ie Goldfish)

goldfish aren't carp.
these are carp.

 

[regsmyth]

Yes it certainly was a hard winter.

We had temps of zero or less for over two weeks, must have been at least 6 inches of ice maybe 12 inches, but I didn't core drill it to find out.
The ice sealed the pond for at least a month.

I dont have a heater or pump.

All but the biggest (and probably oldest) two survived, the pond is over 4 ft in the deepest bits.

The water could be syphoning out of your pond via your collapsed rockery? Sometimes mud/weeds in the creases of the liner can act to drain your pond. Maybe after you fill it, the water takes a little while to track through the mud and create a good pathway to drain. Then it all gets sucked out, till the level drops below the mud it's syphoning out via.

Or else you have a leak.

But if you have a leak, it should be pretty obvious if you lose so much water so quickly.

However, I once had a cheap temporary pond using a pvc liner which had failed at the seam and leaked. Even when I knew where it was leaking from I still couldn't see it. (Except when I lifted the liner to spot the wet mud).

Good luck.

 

[dextrous]

Op - maybe the fish are drinking it now it's getting warmer

 

[Mickymoody]

Carp (ie Goldfish)

goldfish aren't carp.
these are carp.

Yup thats what they look like...

Quote from Wikipedia...

Carp, along with many of their cyprinid relatives, are popular ornamental aquarium and pond fish. The two most notable ornamental carps are goldfish and koi. Goldfish and koi have advantages over most other ornamental fishes, in that they are tolerant of cold (they can survive in water temperatures as low as 4 degrees Celsius), can survive at low oxygen levels, and can tolerate low water quality.

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carp

The pond lasted about 3/4 full for about a week, then further drained to 6" again..You would think there would be visible water leakage (ie like a plughole flow), or the water actually going somewhere ie garden bogged, or runoff down the street into a neighbours property, thus introducing a food colour dye to the water might reveal where the leak goes to, but that might be bad for the fishes. Or scoop the fishes out for a short holiday, drain the pond completely, but relining it involves digging up the ornamental brickwork that surrounds the pond, and destroying the waterfall, and rockery to some extent.

Or the fish are simply greedy, and drinking all the water - cheeky buggers!

 

[seco services]

if you look at it that way yes they are from the same family.
but look at it from a koi keepers/breeders side if you keep koi
then you don't have goldfish.


goldfish are something you buy in the pet shop for £2.
koi carp are something you buy off a breeder for £200.


koi won't stand the condition like goldfish do and won't be happy in 2.5 ft of water.

 

[Mickymoody]

if you look at it that way yes they are from the same family.
but look at it from a koi keepers/breeders side if you keep koi
then you don't have goldfish.


goldfish are something you buy in the pet shop for £2.
koi carp are something you buy off a breeder for £200.


koi won't stand the condition like goldfish do and won't be happy in 2.5 ft of water.

You are seriously deluded. The evidence is clearly produced above, and you still argue against it. You go into a petshop and buy a mature 6" long fish for £2..no it costs £50, even more for Koi. Sure I paid 3-4 quid for the fish origionally, but to buy them now is more expensive. Breeder=petshop.

Goldfish have lived in a bowl for generations, Koi is the same family, what are the reasonings behind that they can't live in 2.5 foot of water, when fish live in a bowl? Living in a pond is their natural habitat?

Koi and Goldfish are Carp, they live in rivers, and ponds. And bowls, that have inches of water, and a circumference of 6 inches, but are unable to live in a pond 3 feet deep? Get real!

 

[dextrous]

Why is it that every book or website I've ever seen bangs on about koi carp needing very deep pools, with a load of filtration etc;? I genuinly don't know and would welcome enlightenment from an expert such as yourself Micky