Bathroom Cabinet - fused spur

[Donquick]

Hi All,

In the bathroom is a fan which is on a fan switch located outside the bathroom up top near the top of the door. Also on the fan switch is a wire to the shaver socket - so that this can also be isolated from outside the room. So far so good. I have now bought a cabinet with a light. The caution on the cabinet reads - 'must be fitted to a fused spur in zone 2/3' etc. (It will be in zone 2, just out of interest - due < 600 above sink)

So the question is this - If I spur the cabinet off of the shaver socket, do i need to have a separate fused patress after/next to the fan switch for the spur that has the cabinet (and shaver) on OR will the DP fan switch be sufficient as it stands even though there is not a fuse on it. BTW, the circuit is on a 30mA RCD on the board. The board is brand new 17th edition split load full RCD.

Thanks for your help, which is for the purposes of planning ahead - work to be done by qualified electrician etc...

Thanks,

 

[securespark]

If the instructions say that, why do you think you can do it another way?

Also, spurring several appliances off one switch is not compliant.

Let the spark design the circuit.

 

[Donquick]

If the instructions say that, why do you think you can do it another way?

a) Because this is implied by other posts that i have read where it has been said that the fused aspect of the circuit is not always necessary;
b) Because my electrician advised me that with a new 17th edition board I would not need isolation in another situation I recently encountered;
c) Because the advisory on the cabinet is in a section that is badly translated into english and I have just reason to suspect that the advice may not be entirely current or accurate. It is cetainly presented in away which leads me to think that it is worth checking for accuracy.
d) There is often an alternative method to solving a problem that is more suitable to a particular situation where there are exising elements in place.

Also, spurring several appliances off one switch is not compliant.

Everybody (electrician and building control) seeemd ok with the fan and the shaver socket both being on the fan switch. Should I have a separate feed to a separate fused switch just for the cabinet and leave the rest as is in that case?

Let the spark design the circuit.

The electricial is away until mid October and the plasterer is due to come in next week. As such i need to know if i am going to need another box in the wall next to the fan switch before the plasterer arrives. Hence the question.

I think that is the purpose of a forum like this. I don't think there would be much use for one if the answer to everything was 'ask somebody who knows the answer' slightly simplistic, perhaps?

 

[securespark]

Why have you got the plasterer coming before the spark?

 

[EFLImpudence]

a) Because this is implied by other posts that i have read where it has been said that the fused aspect of the circuit is not always necessary;

It is true that the fuse is not required for electrical reasons but -
the regulations state that manufacturers instructions should be taken into account.

Let the spark design the circuit.

The electricial is away until mid October and the plasterer is due to come in next week. As such i need to know if i am going to need another box in the wall next to the fan switch before the plasterer arrives. Hence the question.

You're having it plastered before fitting the cable???

I think that is the purpose of a forum like this. I don't think there would be much use for one if the answer to everything was 'ask somebody who knows the answer' slightly simplistic, perhaps?

It's not a question of that.
The electrician will want it done to HIS specifications because HE has to sign that it is compliant, not us.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I sounds like the isolator you have outside the bathroom is a fan isolator and should really be used for that purpose only.
It is likely that the fan operates when you turn your bathroom light on.
So the circuit is very much likely to be part of the lighting circuit which should be fused accordingly to cable size and output.
Personally I would try to take the feed via the lighting circuit rather than adding extra electrical items to the isolator, it is recommended that isolators only serve one piece of equipment.
As far as the zones are concerned zone 3 is no longer in existence.
You said that the cabinet would be placed 600mm above the sink basin.
That does not really explain where it is located regarding the zones.
The zones are subject to distances with the reference points being baths and showers, not sink basins.

Really this is a problem that your electrician should be resolving. I would not expect a client to offering me advise on electrical routes, selectivity, feeds, requirements and complaints to BS7671 and part p.
The electrician in this case is your daddy and he should be making sure it is compliance and assuming responsibility of it.

 

[Donquick]

a) Because this is implied by other posts that i have read where it has been said that the fused aspect of the circuit is not always necessary;

It is true that the fuse is not required for electrical reasons but -
the regulations state that manufacturers instructions should be taken into account.

Let the spark design the circuit.

The electricial is away until mid October and the plasterer is due to come in next week. As such i need to know if i am going to need another box in the wall next to the fan switch before the plasterer arrives. Hence the question.

You're having it plastered before fitting the cable???

I think that is the purpose of a forum like this. I don't think there would be much use for one if the answer to everything was 'ask somebody who knows the answer' slightly simplistic, perhaps?

It's not a question of that.
The electrician will want it done to HIS specifications because HE has to sign that it is compliant, not us.

Thanks for the input, appreciate it. Just to be clear. I am having the room outside the bathroom plastered, not the bathroom. I thought i had done everything necessary in the room outside until this latest issue of the cabinet came up. That is why i simply wish to know whether I need a fused patress (seems the answer is probably yes), and whether it needs to go in the room outside the bathroom or whether it can go in the bathroom itself. Just so i know whethere i need to make another hole in the wall next to the fan switch or not, before the plasterer comes in.

Perhaps somebody could just answer this question if it simplifies the situation. Can the fused patress go in the bathroom near the ceiling or does it need to go outside the room.

Thanks.

 

[Donquick]

I sounds like the isolator you have outside the bathroom is a fan isolator and should really be used for that purpose only.
It is likely that the fan operates when you turn your bathroom light on.
So the circuit is very much likely to be part of the lighting circuit which should be fused accordingly to cable size and output.
Personally I would try to take the feed via the lighting circuit rather than adding extra electrical items to the isolator, it is recommended that isolators only serve one piece of equipment.
As far as the zones are concerned zone 3 is no longer in existence.
You said that the cabinet would be placed 600mm above the sink basin.
That does not really explain where it is located regarding the zones.
The zones are subject to distances with the reference points being baths and showers, not sink basins.

Really this is a problem that your electrician should be resolving. I would not expect a client to offering me advise on electrical routes, selectivity, feeds, requirements and complaints to BS7671 and part p.
The electrician in this case is your daddy and he should be making sure it is compliance and assuming responsibility of it.

Thanks for a genuine helpful answer - i appreciate it. All of it is a spur off of the lighting circuit which is protected as you say. I will take your advise and assume that we are going to start a new spur from the lighting circuit for the cabinet and that we will be incorporating a fused patress into the circuit.

Can i ask you another question please. Can the fused patress go in the bathroom near the ceiling or must it go outside the room. Also, if i decide to make it a switched and fused patress doe that make any difference to the location.

Thanks in advance.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Providing the FCU is outside zone 0,1 and 2. It can.
Only separated extra low voltage and protected extra low voltage items are allowed within zones 1 and 2. Unless it's specially designed for the zones.

Untitled

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 29 Sep 2011
• 4

 

[Donquick]

Providing the FCU is outside zone 0,1 and 2. It can.
Only separated extra low voltage and protected extra low voltage items are allowed within zones 1 and 2. Unless it's specially designed for the zones.

Untitled

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 29 Sep 2011
• 4

Thanks PrenticeBoy. That sorts it out. Appreciate it.

 

[securespark]

The electrician in this case is your daddy and he should be making sure it is compliance and assuming responsibility of it.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Never heard of the saying "who's your daddy"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byPSfzfVkvE