Consumer unit bathroom, nothing on home report?

[securespark]

An outdoor socket at high level for the christmas lights is going to attract less severe coding than a socket at low level supplying a steam cleaner in daily use for example.

Assuming that socket is indoors....

 

[SaladFingers]

It's a condition report. You can't report the condition of a say, 70s era installtion in accordance to the 17th edtion as you know from the outset they differ and regulations have never been retrospective.

OK, how do I report on the condition of an installation which was done in the 1970s when this was before I started my apprenticeship and have no knowledge of the regs at that time?

You'd look for what's obviously dangerous, if anything at all. Anything else you make notes accordingly. To an electrician worth the paper his qualifications are written on, that'd make sense.

It unfortunately doesn't make sense.

You make notes on everything you find, from something which is immediately dangerous such as exposed live parts, right through to none electrical observations such as lack of emergency lighting. You assess the installation to the current edition of BS7671, and report ALL none compliances, however minor or major, and regardless of whether the installation was compliant at the time it was installed.

Sounds fine, however lack of emergency lighting is a buildings and fire regulations issue, not electrical issue.

 

[RF Lighting]

It's a condition report. You can't report the condition of a say, 70s era installtion in accordance to the 17th edtion as you know from the outset they differ and regulations have never been retrospective.

OK, how do I report on the condition of an installation which was done in the 1970s when this was before I started my apprenticeship and have no knowledge of the regs at that time?

Surely an EICR does have to be undertaken with reference....

With reference, but you can't fail it for not meeting 17th, if that's what were meant.

Of course you can. If I came across a 1920's installation with exposed live parts, double pole fusing, mercury switches, and no earthing of course you could 'fail' it.

Unless it's inherently dangerous, then no, you can't for not meeting the 17th - it wasn't installed during the 17th. No earths, if there's no exposed metallical conductive parts, then what's the problem? Otherwise then if there's metal light fittings, then there's an issue.

I don't know if you've ever actually carried out an EICR or if you even work within the electrical industy, but it's quite simple. Every none compliance with the current regulations you find you write down in the observations section. You then grade each observation with a code C1, C2, C3 or no code.

Any code C1 or C2 observations result in an unsatisfactory EICR being issued.

I presume this is what you regard as a fail?

 

[SaladFingers]

It's a condition report. You can't report the condition of a say, 70s era installtion in accordance to the 17th edtion as you know from the outset they differ and regulations have never been retrospective.

OK, how do I report on the condition of an installation which was done in the 1970s when this was before I started my apprenticeship and have no knowledge of the regs at that time?

Surely an EICR does have to be undertaken with reference....

With reference, but you can't fail it for not meeting 17th, if that's what were meant.

Of course you can. If I came across a 1920's installation with exposed live parts, double pole fusing, mercury switches, and no earthing of course you could 'fail' it.

Unless it's inherently dangerous, then no, you can't for not meeting the 17th - it wasn't installed during the 17th. No earths, if there's no exposed metallical conductive parts, then what's the problem? Otherwise then if there's metal light fittings, then there's an issue.

I don't know if you've ever actually carried out an EICR or if you even work within the electrical industy, but it's quite simple. Every none compliance with the current regulations you find you write down in the observations section. You then grade each observation with a code C1, C2, C3 or no code.

Any code C1 or C2 observations result in an unsatisfactory EICR being issued.

I presume this is what you regard as a fail?

I know how to do one, I was responding to the person who'd fail it for not meeting the 17th. Well, it won't if it's an old install will it and you can't fail something for not meeting the 17th.

 

[RF Lighting]

It's a condition report. You can't report the condition of a say, 70s era installtion in accordance to the 17th edtion as you know from the outset they differ and regulations have never been retrospective.

OK, how do I report on the condition of an installation which was done in the 1970s when this was before I started my apprenticeship and have no knowledge of the regs at that time?

You'd look for what's obviously dangerous, if anything at all. Anything else you make notes accordingly. To an electrician worth the paper his qualifications are written on, that'd make sense.

It unfortunately doesn't make sense.

You make notes on everything you find, from something which is immediately dangerous such as exposed live parts, right through to none electrical observations such as lack of emergency lighting. You assess the installation to the current edition of BS7671, and report ALL none compliances, however minor or major, and regardless of whether the installation was compliant at the time it was installed.

Sounds fine, however lack of emergency lighting is a buildings and fire regulations issue, not electrical issue.

Hence I wrote "none electrical observations such as lack of emergency lighting."

 

[RF Lighting]

It's a condition report. You can't report the condition of a say, 70s era installtion in accordance to the 17th edtion as you know from the outset they differ and regulations have never been retrospective.

OK, how do I report on the condition of an installation which was done in the 1970s when this was before I started my apprenticeship and have no knowledge of the regs at that time?

Surely an EICR does have to be undertaken with reference....

With reference, but you can't fail it for not meeting 17th, if that's what were meant.

Of course you can. If I came across a 1920's installation with exposed live parts, double pole fusing, mercury switches, and no earthing of course you could 'fail' it.

Unless it's inherently dangerous, then no, you can't for not meeting the 17th - it wasn't installed during the 17th. No earths, if there's no exposed metallical conductive parts, then what's the problem? Otherwise then if there's metal light fittings, then there's an issue.

I don't know if you've ever actually carried out an EICR or if you even work within the electrical industy, but it's quite simple. Every none compliance with the current regulations you find you write down in the observations section. You then grade each observation with a code C1, C2, C3 or no code.

Any code C1 or C2 observations result in an unsatisfactory EICR being issued.

I presume this is what you regard as a fail?

I know how to do one, I was responding to the person who'd fail it for not meeting the 17th. Well, it won't if it's an old install will it and you can't fail something for not meeting the 17th.

You clearly have no idea how EICRs work if that's your stance.

If you were inspecting a 1920s installation with fused neutrals and no PEBs would you issue a satisfactory EICR because it complied with regulations when the installation was carried out?

 

[SaladFingers]

It's a condition report. You can't report the condition of a say, 70s era installtion in accordance to the 17th edtion as you know from the outset they differ and regulations have never been retrospective.

OK, how do I report on the condition of an installation which was done in the 1970s when this was before I started my apprenticeship and have no knowledge of the regs at that time?

Surely an EICR does have to be undertaken with reference....

With reference, but you can't fail it for not meeting 17th, if that's what were meant.

Of course you can. If I came across a 1920's installation with exposed live parts, double pole fusing, mercury switches, and no earthing of course you could 'fail' it.

Unless it's inherently dangerous, then no, you can't for not meeting the 17th - it wasn't installed during the 17th. No earths, if there's no exposed metallical conductive parts, then what's the problem? Otherwise then if there's metal light fittings, then there's an issue.

I don't know if you've ever actually carried out an EICR or if you even work within the electrical industy, but it's quite simple. Every none compliance with the current regulations you find you write down in the observations section. You then grade each observation with a code C1, C2, C3 or no code.

Any code C1 or C2 observations result in an unsatisfactory EICR being issued.

I presume this is what you regard as a fail?

I know how to do one, I was responding to the person who'd fail it for not meeting the 17th. Well, it won't if it's an old install will it and you can't fail something for not meeting the 17th.

You clearly have no idea how EICRs work if that's your stance.

If you were inspecting a 1920s installation with fused neutrals and no PEBs would you issue a satisfactory EICR because it complied with regulations when the installation was carried out?

I clearly do. You clearly can't read.

If it's dangerous, then yes it's a fail. Fused neutrals wouldn't comply with any reg at all as you could get floating voltages if the fuse went open.

 

[RF Lighting]

But it was compliant when it was installed. You said you can't fail an installation just because it doesn't meet current regs. Now you're saying you can.

Make your mind up.

 

[SaladFingers]

But it was compliant when it was installed. You said you can't fail an installation just because it doesn't meet current regs. Now you're saying you can.

Make your mind up.

When were it ever compliant to have floating voltages on a neutral?

 

[RF Lighting]

Up until about the 1940s at a guess.

You've never seen an old installation with fused neutrals?

 

[JohnW2]

Surely an EICR does have to be undertaken with reference....

With reference, but you can't fail it for not meeting 17th, if that's what were meant.

Of course you can, if the non-compliance with 17th Ed is considered (by the inspector) to be sufficiently serious to represent a danger.

There are plenty of things that would have been compliant with old editions of the regs which are not only non-compliant with current regs but are clearly, in terms of current attitudes to safety/danger, totally unacceptable - and it would make a joke of the whole concept of EICRs if such things could 'pass' an EICR, just because of their historical compliance with ancient regulations!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SaladFingers]

Up until about the 1940s at a guess.

You've never seen an old installation with fused neutrals?

I've worked on 30s and 40s switch gear where the rest of the system were 50s and onwards.

I've seen fused neutrals before, but within equipment, knowing that it's not an entirely safe situation. However acceptable it were then, back then it would have still been a floating voltage if open.

 

[SaladFingers]

Surely an EICR does have to be undertaken with reference....

With reference, but you can't fail it for not meeting 17th, if that's what were meant.

Of course you can, if the non-compliance with 17th Ed is considered (by the inspector) to be sufficiently serious to represent a danger.

There are plenty of things that would have been compliant with old editions of the regs which are not only non-compliant with current regs but are clearly, in terms of current attitudes to safety/danger, totally unacceptable - and it would make a joke of the whole concept of EICRs if such things could 'pass' an EICR, just because of their historical compliance with ancient regulations!

Kind Regards, John

If it's dangerous, yes, but not simply for not having been installed during a 17th era. You can't fail an install unless it's dangerous.

 

[RF Lighting]

If it's none compliant with the current edition of BS7671, then it gets noted as a none compliance.

You use the coding system to say how dangerous it is, and subsequently, whether the installation is in a satisfactory or an unsatisfactory condition.

 

[SaladFingers]

If it's none compliant with the current edition of BS7671, then it gets noted as a none compliance.

You use the coding system to say how dangerous it is, and subsequently, whether the installation is in a satisfactory or an unsatisfactory condition.

Exactly, no more, no less.