Worried about my plumbers competence

[achrn]

A build like this would normally have a retention built in.

There is a retention (enough to do a new boiler and cylinder install, I think). Despite aspersions cast, at this point I'm more concerned about it being right and safe than about the money, but if it comes to a new install the money will be extracted from the builder's pot not from mine.

Sadly, I don't think I can find a way to charge him for the weekend I spent reading installation manuals and Approved Document G, and other assorted plumbing and heating references. Though on the bright side, learning stuff is interesting in its own right.

The cost that I'm bearing is that I'm keeping 'my' professional opinion person paid by me - the advantages of maintaining a completely transparent situation about who his client is and really is makes that worthwhile. An hour or two of his time is easily worth the peace of mind - and it's less than we've spent on external light fittings (for example). Once all the dust has settled I might haggle with the builder over the final retention release, but that's a long way in the future.

 

[achrn]

I have a Gas Safe number. I have put it in http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/

The plumber is registered, for:
Combustion Analysis
Cooker
Gas Boiler
Pipework
Range Cooker
Vented Cyl

Presumably this means the boiler is legal (though it may or may not be safe) but he shouldn't have put in the cylinder.

As I understand it, by strict letter of the law, he could have put in the cylinder IF he was competent (which he is demonstrably not) AND Building Control were notified in advance that he was going to do so (which I don't believe he or the builder did - I certainly didn't). In practice, he just shouldn't have done it without an unvented cylinder qualification.

Going forward, faults with cylinder install can legally be fixed by another person, is that right? So had he not been Gas Safe boiler qualified, to be legal boiler would have had to be stripped out and start from scratch, but it is now legal for someone else to take over and fix things with the cylinder install? So then I just have to decide whether that is sensible, and make sure I'm satisfied about qualifications / credentials in advance.

 

[Agile]

On the one hand I've got people saying "you should be just telling the builder to get it sorted out" - ignoring the fact that I did that even before the thread started, and multiple times since then, he said he's checked with the plumber and it was fine. Indeed, the plumber has told him as installed now it's finished and safe and completely fine. You've seen the pictures.

The gas and boiler installation cannot be fine unless the installer was gas registered!

If he was not then the only way to correct the boiler/gas installation is to REMOVE the boiler and reinstall it by someone who IS registered.

You have a strong lever with the builder because you need to pay him. I dont understand why you cannot get him to agree the installer was un-registered and the boiler needs to be reinstalled OR to provide his registration number.

In any case the reg number needs to be included on the Certificate when the boiler installation is notified to Gas Safe.

Perhaps you still dont understand the procedure? When a controlled installation like a boiler is installed we have to notify Gas Safe who in turn notify Building Control and post a Certificate to the home owner.

That procedure can only be followed by the ORIGINAL installer [ and not by ANYONE else unless he removes the boiler and reinstalls it. ]

If the builder used a non reg then he must accept the responsibility and pay for reinstallation. If he was registered then he needs to provide you with the reg number AND get him to notify the installation to Gas Safe.

If you have a telephone number then Gas Safe can search for an installer using that.

If the builder does not provide the installer's reg number then you can report the illegal installation to Gas Safe with the builder as the prime culprit. Thats a Gas Safe function to investigate illegal installations.

Tony

 

[achrn]

Perhaps you still dont understand the procedure? When a controlled installation like a boiler is installed we have to notify Gas Safe who in turn notify Building Control and post a Certificate to the home owner.

Or perhaps I do understand it but wasn't as ready as some to assume that he must be unregistered.

He is registered for gas boiler - I assume my post saying so crossed with yours.

 

[virgilns]

eerr.... we know.

Sorry - didn't think it had been restated since the last 'is this dangerous?' question

 

[Agile]

Sorry, it took a while to write that as many read this forum for information and I need to ensure that it is both factually correct as well as easy to read.

It is all still relevant apart from not knowing if there was a reg number.

Are you happy that there is an identifyable photo on the G-S site and with the location where he lives?

You must insist that he notifies the installation to G-S so that you get the posted Certificate.

Once you have that anyone else can do any remedial work!

Tony

 

[achrn]

Sorry, it took a while to write that as many read this forum for information and I need to ensure that it is both factually correct as well as easy to read.

No problem, and I really am immensely grateful to the several helpful professionals here who have given me not only the information about what is wrong in the pictures but also the pointers to relevant documents / requirements so I can see stuff set out for myself.

Are you happy that there is an identifyable photo on the G-S site and with the location where he lives?

Yes. Builder gave me a gas-safe business number and an address. Putting the number in gets me a company called (not really) 'Mr P Bloggs' with one engineer. I've known the plumber as Mr Peter Bloggs and the other blokes on site call him Pete. [For avoidance of doubt - I've made up the P Bloggs name, but it's a similar sort of thing].

The photo is not a great likeness - he's not looking at camera, got a beard he didn't have on site, and appears to have aged about 10 years (maybe that's all my doing) but I think it is the same person - it's too similar to be coincidence. The company address ties up with what the builder told me.

You must insist that he notifies the installation to G-S so that you get the posted Certificate.

Once you have that anyone else can do any remedial work!

The builder says that the plumber says that he has already notified it and I will get the paperwork within a few days. Equally, the builder said the plumber said everything was rosy several times before I insisted he was ejected.

I have reported to Gas Safe. Presumably if he has notified any installation work they will be able to tie up his notification and my report. Gas Safe say someone will call me back.

 

[Agile]

Gas Safe will in theory only take any significant interest in gas/boilers issues.

They have no jurisdiction over unventeds.

I have not followed the alleged difficiencies but dont remember any significant problem with the boiler of the type that G-S would have much interest in. Although you do have a right to invite them to inspect it if you have any concerns over the installation or the installer. They then decide if they wish to inspect and that may decide on their past history relating to the installer.

The installation certificate

Tony

 

[achrn]

I don't know of anything wrong with the boiler itself other than the condensate drain routing (now fixed) and the fact that the manual says an extra expansion vessel is needed and he didn't fit one.

But I don't know what the requirements are - the inlet group manual and cylinder manual, for example, tell me what port needs to be connected to a tundish, but the boiler manual doesn't tell me what restrictions apply to the gas supply pipe, or how it must be connected to the pipes in the building, or it's routing. It does say 22mm minimum, and I do have that back to the meter, but that's all I know to look for.

This is why I'm getting someone else I pay to look at it all. I know the previous plumber lied to me about the system being installed correctly, but I don't know the extent of those lies.

 

[joe-90]

Well now that you've upset the builder by being pedantic (Take the boiler off the wall and reattach it to the wall?? FFS )

I can tell you with amazing certainty that he will bodge the rest of the job and cut costs and corners as he now has nothing to lose (you are spending the retention on some other geezer that is probably as clueless). Don't bother making a snagging list - he won't come back - and I don't blame him.

There will only be one loser here - and that will be you.

This is an Inernet forum where they all play games built around ego massaging. The real world is to get on with the builder before you end up far worse off.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Joe, you know nothing so please don't ruin an otherwise constructive thread.

 

[joe-90]

I'm warning him about what will happen by upsetting the builder - that IS important. When he's aware of that I'll leave you to it.

 

[FiremanT]

[

i]

I'm warning him about what will happen by upsetting the builder - that IS important. When he's aware of that I'll leave you to it.

[/i]

You are actually just being a dick. So **** off

 

[joe-90]

I'm giving good advice. It's you that ********. Being pedantic will only make the whole build turn sour.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Seriously Joe. Stay out of it. Your input is not needed. The OP knows more about the builder's temperament and sensibilities than you. It is the builder's responsibility to employ competent sub contractors.