Worried about my plumbers competence

[easyflow]

if you doubted your plumbers ability ytour taking a long time to out him.

I think I've gone way beyond any reasonable measure of giving the man a fair chance to sort things out.

Your right, thats what Im saying, its pretty clear the jobs shabby and somthing should have been done long ago, instead the thread now resembles somthing out of east enders with the builder getting pressure from you and the dodgey plumber undergoing a grilling from the prosecution, you also said in one of your posts that once the professionals have gone you will put things right.
Who needs builders and plumbers with people like you about.

 

[joe-90]

If the plumber isn't registered with Gas Safe - how do they get around the paperwork for guarantee etc? Does he use some other geezers number and slip him a bung?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Easy - what are you on about? OP is only suggesting he is going to correct the condensate drain.

We've done little more than protect the image of our trade and direct the OP to obvious failings in the workmanship. Including what is now an rather dangerous cylinder.

OP you have acted perfectly correctly IMHO.

 

[achrn]

achrn, I agree with Alec1.

your builder is the man you need to direct your thoughts at. its him who pick the Muppet and it will be him that needs to get it sorted.

That's what I've been doing all along and am still doing - with the one exception of at the point that when the plumber had connected up the cylinder with no expansion vessel effective and said it was a complete and safe install I instructed that he was not to touch anything else in my house.

But there are those here saying 'it all went downhill when you let the builder choose the plumber rather than taking control yourself' and so on - which I took as being a view that I should be picking the plumber, and therefore should now pick the plumber to get it fixed.

The current arrangement with the builder is:

The builder is getting in a plumber of his choosing to do the washbasin sink taps, toilet soil pipe connections, etc - all the true 'plumbing' stuff that remains.

The builder is getting someone he uses occasionally who describes himself as a heating engineer, is Worcester Bosch accredited, and definitely has Gas Safe unvented on his ID card in to look at the heating install. (The builder doesn't use him much because he won't connect toilets.)

If this chap says anything needs changing then it will be changed. The builder is covering all of this within his already agreed fee.

Before any changes are made to current system, I am getting in someone who I checked was Gas Safe for pipework and boilers and unvented cylinders before I even picked up the phone. He is going to inspect all the heating system and gas work and give me his advice. He has not done work for this builder. He is appointed by me and I am paying him. hopefully this chap and teh builders new chap will be in agreement about what is needed.

Is this arrangement where there are two people doing different parts of plumbing (one 'plumbing plumbing' and one 'heating system') a sensible approach? It was alluded to in passing earlier in the thread as being a good way forward, but do I need to beware of any pitfalls that way? (Other than synchronising work, which we are all agreed is the builder's problem).

 

[Dan Robinson]

Is this arrangement where there are two people doing different parts of plumbing (one 'plumbing plumbing' and one 'heating system') a sensible approach? It was alluded to in passing earlier in the thread as being a good way forward, but do I need to beware of any pitfalls that way? (Other than synchronising work, which we are all agreed is the builder's problem).

OP I do regular installs (the one in the pictures I posted is one of them) for a builder who has his own plumber do bathrooms and heating pipe work.

I do the boiler, controls, and cylinder. Charge accordingly and they get decent stuff fitted (hopefully) properly. The plumber takes advice on what has to go where. It works very well.

The system works very well and we have operated like that for nearly 10 years. I do less and less of the grunt work, which suites me fine.


You shouldn't HAVE to sort your own trades out, but sometimes with heating/gas and electrics, because it is something that is underneath all the pretty plasterwork and paint, has to be done once and done properly.

Sometimes it is a necessary evil. Its very hard judgement call; and as you've discovered, something not always found out until its too late.

 

[CBF]

yes it is the builders responsibility for using this guy, however i fail to see why some of you are blaming the OP for this, he employed the builder to do a job & bring in the required trades, yes the buck stops with the builder but he may have been just as clueless as to the plumbers ability.

just because we are talking about another "tradesman" doesn't mean we have to stick up for him

 

[easyflow]

Easy - what are you on about? OP is only suggesting he is going to correct the condensate drain.

We've done little more than protect the image of our trade and direct the OP to obvious failings in the workmanship. Including what is now an rather dangerous cylinder.

OP you have acted perfectly correctly IMHO.

Dont misunderstand me, I also think the OP is 100% correct to question the plumbing work and get it put right by a professional, I do feel for him because its costing alot of money,
My gripe is the whole thing could have been sorted straight away but all the dithering has done nobody any favours.

 

[virgilns]

looking at this, it's still not right.

Expansion vessel looks like it's connected to the balanced cold feed, not the expansion port!

Looks like more than 600mm of pipework between the safety valve and the tundish.

I'd check the fall on the D2 pipework from the Tundish and where it's vented to....

Does the multibloc have a built in strainer? worth checking.

Stil not good!

 

[Dan Robinson]

looking at this, it's still not right.

Expansion vessel looks like it's connected to the balanced cold feed, not the expansion port!

eerr.... we know.

Does the multibloc have a built in strainer? worth checking.

It is built into the valve.

 

[Agile]

Is this arrangement where there are two people doing different parts of plumbing (one 'plumbing plumbing' and one 'heating system') a sensible approach? It was alluded to in passing earlier in the thread as being a good way forward, but do I need to beware of any pitfalls that way? (Other than synchronising work, which we are all agreed is the builder's problem).

It does not matter who does what as long as they are qualified accordingly.

However, I feel you may be ignoring a potential hazard and one the builder may be aware of and about to pay the Worcester guy extra to help to cover up.

If the gas boiler was installed by a non-reg then the only way to make it totally kosher is to take it off the wall and re-install it by a Gas Safe.

I know the technicalities can be difficult for a layman to understand but an unvented can be corrected and become kosher. An illegal gas boiler cannot and has to be removed and reinstalled by a reg person.

The Worcester man is likely to be pressurised by the builder to treat it as if it is his own installation and notify it as such. That is totally illegal ! Thats why it would be better to sort it out NOW if the plumber was gas reg or not and ensure you deal with rectifying the situation in conjunction with Gas Safe. i.e. not to let the builder cover up a non-reg plumber!

Tony

 

[achrn]

The Worcester man is likely to be pressurised by the builder to treat it as if it is his own installation and notify it as such. That is totally illegal ! Thats why it would be better to sort it out NOW if the plumber was gas reg or not and ensure you deal with rectifying the situation in conjunction with Gas Safe. i.e. not to let the builder cover up a non-reg plumber!

But I don't understand what more I'm supposed to do?

I've insisted the plumber who has demonstrated incompetence is ejected from site. I've insisted the builder gets someone who is WB AND Gas Safe to investigate. I've appointed my own Gas Safe chap to come and have a look.

On the one hand I've got people saying "you should be just telling the builder to get it sorted out" - ignoring the fact that I did that even before the thread started, and multiple times since then, he said he's checked with the plumber and it was fine. Indeed, the plumber has told him as installed now it's finished and safe and completely fine. You've seen the pictures.

I've spoken to Gas Safe and done all I can to identify the plumber and it's not specific enough for them to take any further action (they say).

It's easy to say I'm overlooking a potential hazard, but what more am I supposed to actually DO?

"Sort it out NOW" How? I've kicked one off site and insisted I have veto over any replacement. The only way I could be more involved would be by getting a gas boiler and unvented cylinder certification myself.

What do you think I should be doing? Simply saying "sort it out NOW" tells me nothing. I've taken every possible step I can think of to "sort it out NOW". I want to sort it out NOW I'm trying to sort it out NOW. What more can I do to sort it out NOW?

 

[ALEC1]

Ah Worcester Bosch, the builders favourite...purely because builders never see the issues that follow...nor really understand how a boiler "fits in with the system"

I would be negotiating a large retainer to be held from the builder for up to 2 years to cover possible issues..

putting things right is a lucrative trade for many who know what they are doing...

in the longer term the public need to stop thinking that plumbing and heating are a bit of an inconvenience to building the grand design and start giving it the credit it needs and deserves..

OP you are doing well to have nipped this in the bud...but don't let off the builder scott free just because he is nice to you...he should be doing what you are doing...thats why he you pay him so much!

 

[FiremanT]

My gripe is the whole thing could have been sorted straight away but all the dithering has done nobody any favours.[/quote]

Would you be happier if a customer with a niggle started shouting his mouth off, made threats to withold payments without checking his suspicions.?
Like some of the clowns we see here.

Yes, it could have been sorted earlier, but the "plumber" is denying any problems.

I think the OP has been patient,and has acknowledged tha this other trades see to be doing a decent job. He doesn't want to fallout with the builder, and has given alla chance to rectify. He knows no-one but us that he can approach for advice. What more can you expect?

 

[Nige F]

A sorry indication of the state of our industry . Prima donna gas bods who won`t touch toilets - and any old bod calling themselves Gas Safe and Unvented qualified . Rafts of legislation and the customer still gets shafted.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Sadly the legislation is geared more towards lining pockets of suits than safety and maintaining standards.

A build like this would normally have a retention built in.