A brief summation of No 10's attempts to stay in the EU

[tony1851]

There WAS a proposal - it was to leave the EU; there WAS a policy, which was to prepare for negotiations to leave; there IS a plan, which is to take time to prepare a good negotiating position; nobody jumps into negotiations without sound preparation.

 

[tony1851]

That would require the Quitters to agree among themselves some workable and clearly articulated proposals.

The proposal would be to have full access to the EU without conditions. The EU will say 'no', and it's then negotiations start.

 

[Himaginn]

The proposal would be to have full access to the EU without conditions. The EU will say 'no', and it's then negotiations start.

Some of the Brexiteers knew the proposal was undeliverable? But still they sold it as achievable? Others didn't attempt to suggest that was what was wanted, and emphasised the immigration problem. Some suggested Turkey was about to join and all the 75 million Turks were on their way.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Weren't you a quitter JohnD ? Surely giving up the struggle for a country free of the EU dictatorship is quitting, as opposed to the brave people who voted for & got their dream of a respite from Brussels lunacy.

 

[Brigadier]

Can anyone explain what benefits we will have in REAL terms once we actually leave? Apart from bent bananas.

Anyone have any input?

Depends on who you are talking about; some will probably be better off, some worse.

 

[JohnD]

Haha, very funny, Hate, you Quitter.

I don't believe in resigning from the union. I have sufficient faith in the UK and in the people of Europe. I don't believe that the UK needs to run away. I don't believe that the UK is too weak and stupid to hold its own within the community or that it lacks the ability to participate in making the rules. And I don't think it is undemocratic that the UK should agree to follow the rules it has helped to make, any more than I think it is undemocratic for the men of Surrey to follow the rules made by the UK.

 

[JohnD]

The proposal would be to have full access to the EU without conditions. The EU will say 'no', and it's then negotiations start.

So your idea is that the referendum should be for citizens to vote for something they can't have.

Are you a toddler?

"Tony, would you like spaghetti for tea, or baked beans?

"I want chocolate cake"

"You can't have chocolate cake. You like beans, shall I do you beans on toast?"

"Want chocolate cake"

"I can do you spaghetti if you want"

"WANT CAKE! NOW!"

The Quitters can't even agree which of the possibilities they want. It's pretty simple. Which "OUT" outcome do you prefer?

Outcomes

• JohnD
• 18 Aug 2016
• 1

 

[tony1851]

Some of the Brexiteers knew the proposal was undeliverable? But still they sold it as achievable? Others didn't attempt to suggest that was what was wanted, and emphasised the immigration problem. Some suggested Turkey was about to join and all the 75 million Turks were on their way.

Why would it be undeliverable? we joined, so we can leave; Art50 gives the rules for the leaving process, therefore leaving is a possibility.

And as regards the other points; Remain threatened us with higher interest rates, 0.5 million on the dole, wars etc. Come on, Himm, there were lies and exaggerations on BOTH sides. The people are not stupid - the majority voted to leave that festering pile of c*** the other side of the Channel.

 

[transam]

You will find that the U.K voting out of The E.U is the beginning of the end for the E.U

The rest of the E.U are very very worried by the Brexit vote.

They are starting to try & implement changes in order to quell any concerns & un-rest. (They have to)

They also need to get a very firm grip on some type of coherent policy on this migrant issue before it is to late., and I doubt that they will be able to

spain , Portugal, Italy, greece are in dire economic trouble. The Italian economy will be a major problem to the E.U

merkel is loosing support in Germany due to her short sighted immigration policy 1.1 million & rising.

And Scotland or the SNP want to join the e.U let them go I say , we should have a referendum in England & vote them out of the union along with that other financial black hole northern Ireland

 

[tony1851]

So your idea is that the referendum should be for citizens to vote for something they can't have.

John, we DON'T know we can't have that - negotiations haven't started yet. The EU WILL announce that we can't have access without free movement of people - it's called tactics.
They are simply trying to frighten the spineless Remainers in the UK in the hope that they will put pressure on the government to raise the white flag - just the continuation of Project Fear.

 

[JohnD]

I've shown you the options.

You do know that any concessions made to the UK have to be approved by all 27 members?

Fat chance.
https://www.ft.com/content/e1e327ec-3dd8-11e6-8716-a4a71e8140b0





So tell me, which of the options on offer do you choose? And do you think the other Quitters will agree?

Outcomes

• JohnD
• 18 Aug 2016
• 1

Telling me you want chocolate cake is not on offer.

 

[tony1851]

@JohnD.

Yes, I agree that the rules say that all 27 members have to agree.
But the EU top brass is renowned for breaking the rules when it suits them.
If, for example, France and Germany came to a decision which involved a compromise on their part, can you really imagine
them allowing little Slovakia to veto it! In that case, Slovakia would either be told to toe the line, or perhaps offered a new
railway station or some other tid-bit to 'encourage' them to fall into line.

 

[noseall]

Certainly; we will regain sovereignty.
Parliament will - for the first time in 40-odd years - become more accountable to voters, instead of being able to blame everything on the EU

Any less wishy-washy reasons for leaving? Something a bit more tangible? What will we regain exactly that we didn't have before?

 

[tony1851]

What will we regain exactly that we didn't have before?

Control of our own affairs, ie democracy; what more needs to be said?
You cannot judge matters purely by material things.

 

[noseall]

The EU will say 'no', and it's then negotiations start.

Oh joy. Will we have any bargaining power when the US and Japan turn their back?