If the result of mistakes - then yes.
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- Thread starter nickpowell77
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Either carrying on calling them bulbs, as we did for decades (even when they didn't resemble biological bulbs) or else introduce some new word. In my opinion, to suddenly start trying to call them by a name which (still) means something different is just plain crazy. We recently had a thread in this forum which got totally confused at one point because it was talking about "the lamps in the lamps".
There are many examples of words we continue to use despite the fact that technological/engineering changes have been such that the word is strictly no longer applicable per its original derivation. When did you last see (or, at least, use) a "soldering iron" that was made out of iron?
Kind Regards, John
I feel the two Johns are not quite accepting the premise that it is the acceptance of obvious mistakes to which we object.
On the one hand, we are told that evolution of the language is good - whatever the reason or the mistake was (literally shall mean something other than that which it obviously does) - and on the other, for example, transformers cannot evolve and still be transformers because of a definition when first invented with Victorian technology (great big lumps of metal).
On the one hand, we are told that evolution of the language is good - whatever the reason or the mistake was (literally shall mean something other than that which it obviously does) - and on the other, for example, transformers cannot evolve and still be transformers because of a definition when first invented with Victorian technology (great big lumps of metal).
Be careful - I suspect that I'm a similar age to EFLI and older than BAS - but, yes, I agree with you.
Kind Regards, John
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If I went into a shop and wanted a lamp, I would say "where are the light bulbs."
Even if what I wanted was an LED, or a CFL stick.
Because people understand and use the term.
If I went into a hardware shop and wanted a nail, I would say "I need a nail."
Because people understand and use the term.
Even if what I wanted was an LED, or a CFL stick.
Because people understand and use the term.
If I went into a hardware shop and wanted a nail, I would say "I need a nail."
Because people understand and use the term.
...but that is the converse of our argument and one against you not accepting that transformers have changed.
My argument would be if people started calling them welders, for example, and you accepted that as evolution.
There is, in my opinion, a big difference between true 'mistakes', changes which unnecessarily introduce confusions and ambiguities and changes in usage which gradually 'evolve'.
In my opinion, "Transformers" and "Lamps" both fall into the middle of those categories. In both cases, the items which were described by those words for many decades still exist, and still need to have words to refer to them unambiguously. To now use those words to (also) refer to something different seems just plain silly.
There are plenty of examples of things which are "just plain wrong" such that I am all in favour of 'correcting', and strongly discouraging, these "mistakes". To mention the first couple of examples which come to mind ...
Referring to a quantitative resistance measurement as a 'continuity test'
Using the word 'narcotic' to refer to almost any 'illegal drug', even if (as is often the case) it is the antithesis of a narcotic.
... but those 'mistakes' are very different from evolved changes in the use of language
Kind Regards, John
Not really. The important difference is that, to all-intents and purposes, the original "soldering irons" no longer exist (whereas the original 'transformers' still very much exist. Even the (probably ~120 years old) one of my grandfather's which I still have has a (massive) bit made out of copper, not iron.
I have no problem for a word being used for a (substantially changed) modern manifestation/equivalent of product if the original no longer exists (and hence no longer 'needs a word').
They hopefully wouldn't do that. Since welding and soldering are totally different things, that would come into the "just plain wrong" category. If people had started calling them, say, "soldering tools" (or "solder melters", or whatever) when they ceased to be made of iron, that would have been 'evolution' if it had become a widespread usage.
Kind Regards, John
Exactly. I have reported many times what (inevitably!) happened when I went into Homebase and asked to be directed to where I could find their "lamps" - and similarly the funny looks I got when I went into Halfords and said that I wanted a lamp for my headlamp!
I am fairly gratified to see that, in this case, the general public have mainly remained sensible despite the attempts (by whoever) to confuse the language!
Kind Regards, John
So, after all that, you agree with Bas and me (who thinks that should be "Bas and I"?).
Your two examples of continuity and narcotics were presumably the result of someone with insufficient knowledge introducing them - exactly the sort of thing about which we are complaining.
Your two examples of continuity and narcotics were presumably the result of someone with insufficient knowledge introducing them - exactly the sort of thing about which we are complaining.
language is going to change and you are not going to stop it, neither are you going to be able to divert it.
You are wasting your time trying to define some changes as good and some as bad.
Write to the Daily Express about it.
You are wasting your time trying to define some changes as good and some as bad.
Write to the Daily Express about it.
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Hopefully no-one - but the way this is going - who knows.
Hopefully no-one, unless perhaps they are a Somerset farmer - who else would say "... agree with I..."?
True - but both have come into very widespread, and 'official', use. Not only BS7671, but countless other publications talk about continuity testing (when they mean resistance measurement) and you have only got to turn on your TV to see that drug/law enforcement agencies, and 'border control' agencies throughout the world are now using the word "narcotic" incorrectly.
In my opinion, it is those frank 'mistakes' that we should be seeking to correct and eliminate, rather than fusing about the (unavoidable) evolution of language.
Kind Regards, John
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