Garage Sockets for Tumble Dryer and Washing Machine

[Nope]

Hi everyone,

The previous owner of our new house had the garage plumbed for a washing machine, which frees up space in the kitchen. We have a washer dryer connected in there, and plugged into a double socket A condenser tumble dryer sits beside it and is plugged into the same double socket. On the other side of the garage, our chest freezer (which is currently switched off) is plugged into one of the second set of double sockets. Nothing is plugged in alongside it. The sockets are fed from a CU containing two MCBs - a 32A one for the sockets, and a 6A one for a sensor light above the garage door on the outside.

When we moved in, I ran washing machine and tumble dryer at the same time, and of course the plug for the tumble dryer got quite warm. It wasn't extremely hot, but if I put my hand on it, it did feel quite warm. The plug got warm even if the dryer was running on its own, but never as warm as when it was running alongside the washing machine I reckoned the socket was possibly being overloaded, but I also replaced the double socket faceplate and put a new, "heavy duty" plug on the tumble dryer. Since changing the plug it hasn't felt warm when dryer is in use on its own, and I haven't yet been confident enough to run both together!

I'm sure there's probably a better, and safer, way to connect our washing machine and tumble dryer. I've considered moving the tumble dryer over to where the chest freezer is, and putting the freezer onto the same double socket as the washing machine. But is there an even better way to do this? Preferably one that can be done by a DIYer like me!

 

[Mottie]

Possibly a loose fuse connector in the plug. I can’t see that running anything else will make that plug get any hotter.

 

[Nope]

Possibly a loose fuse connector in the plug. I can’t see tgat running anything ekes will make that plug get any hotter.

Well that would explain why changing the plug stopped the overheating issue. The plug was moulded to the flex. Perhaps it got damaged in the move!

 

[SUNRAY]

Well that would explain why changing the plug stopped the overheating issue. The plug was moulded to the flex. Perhaps it got damaged in the move!

And perhaps it's been getting hot for a while without you knowing.

 

[Nope]

And perhaps it's been getting hot for a while without you knowing.

That’s also possible! In fairness I never bothered to check plug temperature at our old house because it was plugged in behind a microwave.

 

[securespark]

With DW/ WM/ TD or plug-in oven, I always fit a single socket for each appliance and use a good quality brand socket.

 

[Nope]

With DW/ WM/ TD or plug-in oven, I always fit a single socket for each appliance and use a good quality brand socket.

I was thinking that might be a good option. Either that or a 13A fused connection unit for each appliance.

 

[ebee]

With DW/ WM/ TD or plug-in oven, I always fit a single socket for each appliance and use a good quality brand socket.

Yes good comment or alternatively move things around so each double socket is only running one heating load anyway (or add another socket) . The sockets are only rated at 13A total per point (one twin socket is rated at 13A total not 26A -however it is type tested to 13A on one side and 7A on the other side for a few hours with a limit on the noted temperature rise).
Any plug should be good quality (as should sockets too) and terminations tight and secure.

Your ring (or radial) for the sockets could mean that up to 32A is running to each terminal of the sockets and that will be OK providing that the limit of 13A is not exceeded through the socket (to the load)

 

[Nope]

Yes good comment or alternatively move things around so each double socket is only running one heating load anyway (or add another socket) . The sockets are only rated at 13A total per point (one twin socket is rated at 13A total not 26A -however it is type tested to 13A on one side and 7A on the other side for a few hours with a limit on the noted temperature rise).
Any plug should be good quality (as should sockets too) and terminations tight and secure.

Thank you. I think I will change the double socket then as I’d rather keep washing machine and dryer next to each other.

 

[ebee]

Yes change from one double to two singles or to two doubles adjacent to each other could both be options but twin sockets would give more outlets for you to leave plugged in small loads (battery/ mobile phone charger, table lamp, for example) and sometimes the cost of a twin compared to a single is similar and indeed sometimes cheaper . So long as you avoid two relatively big loads (heating loads like washer/dryer/oven) on one twin socket, a kettle wouldn`t concern me too much because although they might be say 10A they don`t run at that load for more than a few minutes.

When I mention "relatively big loads" I mean from a purely domestic electrical point of view which is essentially heating loads plugged into socket circuits.

 

[ebee]

Just a mention, I think with this situation there will be a very small number of sockets on the circuit. With more general rings and radials you usually have a lot more and if so and it`s a ring (a ring final circuit to give it its correct name) then it`s advisable to place most loading in the middle one third of the ring length or alternatively evenly spread around the ring. Either way you do not need to go to great lengths to balance this out by making lots of calculations but more of a back of a fag packet quick ready reckoner approach but do not completely ignore that some of those heavier loads might only be of short duration whilst some slightly less heavy loads might be for a considerably longer duration - what your trying to do is make the two ends of the ring more or less balance of current drawn every day/month/year rather than every second/minute or hour of the day.

With a radial circuit it makes more sense for the heaviest loading to be nearer the origin (fuse/Circuit Breaker) to reduce volt drop - once again more of the back of a fag packet approach for a quick approximation or even a simple "scratchy head 10 seconds and think" sort of approach should suffice

 

[ebee]

Actually I`ve just had a thought. I`ve never heard of anybody actually doing this and I`d bet no one ever has. But what if somebody got a couple of cheapo reconditioned electric meters to wired them into the origins of the ring final and took readings at the start then again after 12 months. I wonder by how much those readings would vary? I still do not think anyone will actually try this experiment even after I`ve mentioned it

 

[ericmark]

The way a fuse works is a bit of metal inside the ceramic tube in some sand melts, clearly it involves heat, so any fuse running near its rating will always get hot, this is normal and is how they work.

The plug should be used in free air, with built in ovens often it is in the air flow generated by the ovens cooling fan, this may also happen with other appliances, but sockets should not be in cupboards, well at least not when supplying near to their maximum output.

It seems some double sockets are rated at 20 amp not 26 amp, in fact specials like filtered double sockets often rated at 13 amp for the pair, so using a twin socket back box rather than a double back box and two single sockets is a good idea.

The sockets are fed from a CU containing two MCBs - a 32A one for the sockets, and a 6A one for a sensor light above the garage door on the outside.

That looks good, but what is the CU fed with? With my integral garage no problem, but where the garage is remote from the house, it is all too often found the supply to the garage does not match the MCB's fitted in the garage consumer unit.

I must admit I have yet to work out the difference between a condenser dryer and a heat pump dryer, the heat pump clearly has a condenser, and with a washer/dryer the condenser is cooled using cold water, it would seem with a condenser dryer the ambient air cools the condenser, which does not seem a good idea in summer, it must make the room it is in hot, however in a garage that should not matter too much.

I know with the heat pump dryer the heat pump does not run all the time, it cuts in and out, and rating on mine is 630 watt, so would not expect any over heating, not actually measured the power used, I will next time used. But there should be no over heating at that rating.

The washer/dryer however is another story, these do have a large load 2 to 3 kW depending on model for an extended time. I looked for power used with a condenser dryer, it gives power used in cycle and cycle length which seems to point to 2 kW, with the old vented tumble dryer we had, we could select 1 kW or 2 kW and it did not take twice as long at 1 kW, so clearly better option, it would some times trip out on over heat on 2 kW so was always run on 1 kW setting, so well within limits for a double socket outlet.

If the washing machine is not used to tumble dry, the time it takes to heat the water is so short, it should not heat up the plug.

Using a mat black plug it should run cooler than a white plug. And of course the larger the plug also the more surface area to dissipate the heat.

You do raise an interesting question, which I had never thought about, which is the best way to condense the water in a dryer, using cold water, or ambient air? Which is the cheaper to use a washer/dryer or a condenser dryer, assuming former uses water to cool and latter air to cool. In winter the condenser dryer is warming the room, so better, not so sure in summer.

Since you have both, interesting if you compare the two drying methods, not that I would move away from a heat pump dryer, just interest.

 

[Nope]

The way a fuse works is a bit of metal inside the ceramic tube in some sand melts, clearly it involves heat, so any fuse running near its rating will always get hot, this is normal and is how they work.

The plug should be used in free air, with built in ovens often it is in the air flow generated by the ovens cooling fan, this may also happen with other appliances, but sockets should not be in cupboards, well at least not when supplying near to their maximum output.

It seems some double sockets are rated at 20 amp not 26 amp, in fact specials like filtered double sockets often rated at 13 amp for the pair, so using a twin socket back box View attachment 310964rather than a double back box and two single sockets is a good idea.


That looks good, but what is the CU fed with? With my integral garage no problem, but where the garage is remote from the house, it is all too often found the supply to the garage does not match the MCB's fitted in the garage consumer unit.

I must admit I have yet to work out the difference between a condenser dryer and a heat pump dryer, the heat pump clearly has a condenser, and with a washer/dryer the condenser is cooled using cold water, it would seem with a condenser dryer the ambient air cools the condenser, which does not seem a good idea in summer, it must make the room it is in hot, however in a garage that should not matter too much.

I know with the heat pump dryer the heat pump does not run all the time, it cuts in and out, and rating on mine is 630 watt, so would not expect any over heating, not actually measured the power used, I will next time used. But there should be no over heating at that rating.

The washer/dryer however is another story, these do have a large load 2 to 3 kW depending on model for an extended time. I looked for power used with a condenser dryer, it gives power used in cycle and cycle length which seems to point to 2 kW, with the old vented tumble dryer we had, we could select 1 kW or 2 kW and it did not take twice as long at 1 kW, so clearly better option, it would some times trip out on over heat on 2 kW so was always run on 1 kW setting, so well within limits for a double socket outlet.

If the washing machine is not used to tumble dry, the time it takes to heat the water is so short, it should not heat up the plug.

Using a mat black plug it should run cooler than a white plug. And of course the larger the plug also the more surface area to dissipate the heat.

You do raise an interesting question, which I had never thought about, which is the best way to condense the water in a dryer, using cold water, or ambient air? Which is the cheaper to use a washer/dryer or a condenser dryer, assuming former uses water to cool and latter air to cool. In winter the condenser dryer is warming the room, so better, not so sure in summer.

Since you have both, interesting if you compare the two drying methods, not that I would move away from a heat pump dryer, just interest.

Thanks for this information. Regarding the garage CU, it’s fed from a 32A MCB in the house CU. Not sure how “correct” that setup is.

 

[ericmark]

Regarding the garage CU, it’s fed from a 32A MCB in the house CU. Not sure how “correct” that setup is.

Clearly the 32 amp MCB in the garage is not really required, it is no more than a switch. But it is easier to fit a MCB to a switch so that is quite common. What we don't know is size of cable to garage, would like to see 4 mm² or larger, but even 2.5 mm² is normally rated at 20 amp, so unlikely to be a problem.

Google Garage CU populated and often the come with a 6 and 32 amp MCB, so are fitted with these even when not really an appropriate size. But in the house CU although they can also be supplied populated, one would not expect to find a 32 amp MCB if the cable was not rated that high.

I think likely your expecting a cold plug, and that will never be the case, at 2 kW the plug will always get warm, but not hotter than you can handle.