10 year or 4 year rule??

[indus]

Hi

I'm getting confused by the 10 and 4 years rule and which one applies.

If a single dwelling is subdivided without permission into flats, are you immune from action after 10 or 4 years?

Thanks

 

[jeds]

Sub division falls under 4 years. People will tell you otherwise but having done dozens of CoLs for subdivision I can tell you it is definitely 4 years.

 

[indus]

Thanks Jeds

 

[tony1851]

Sub division falls under 4 years. People will tell you otherwise but having done dozens of CoLs for subdivision I can tell you it is definitely 4 years.

John, not meaning to be funny but wouldn't that constitute a change of use and therefore come under the 10-year rule? Just wondering.

 

[chapeau]

Town and Country Planning Act 1990

171 B 2

Where there has been a breach of planning control consisting in the change of use of any building to use as a single dwellinghouse, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of four years beginning with the date of the breach.

and

First Sec State vs Arun District Council

 

[tony1851]

Town and Country Planning Act 1990

171 B 2

Where there has been a breach of planning control consisting in the change of use of any building to use as a single dwellinghouse, no enforcement action may be taken after the end of the period of four years beginning with the date of the breach.

and

First Sec State vs Arun District Council

Yes, I understand that one, but the OP was changing an existing single dwelling into flats.

 

[chapeau]

so you don't actually understand it then..............

 

[jeds]

Sub division falls under 4 years. People will tell you otherwise but having done dozens of CoLs for subdivision I can tell you it is definitely 4 years.

John, not meaning to be funny but wouldn't that constitute a change of use and therefore come under the 10-year rule? Just wondering.

No. Each flat becomes a single dwelling in its own right. See Van dyck v sec of state - also Doncaster v sec for environment. Been settled for quite a few years now and I've not had a LA query it.

 

[indus]

Hi Jeds

What have you used as proof to make the case that they have been used as flats?

Thanks

 

[jeds]

Anything can be used as evidence. Rent records, letter from tenant, letting agent or even a neighbour, photos, invoices from builder, etc. The best would be something from the council tax office and I have also used records from the electoral register. The test is balance of probabilities so whatever evidence you provide must outweigh anything the council have - if they have anything at all. Really, anything independant should do it.

 

[indus]

Thanks Jeds.

The different flats were not self contained but were all on different floors. So a large house with basement (own door) ground, first and second floors.

There are council tax bills paid separately for three of the floors.

Does the fact that the units are not self contained make a difference?

Thanks

 

[jeds]

HMOs are different. A sub-division to self contained flats just changes one C3 unit to two or more C3 units. Therefore the use class does not change and the four year rule applies. But what you are describing is an HMO which has it's own use class (C4). Therefore a change of use occurs and the ten year rule applies.

 

[indus]

The plot thickens...

So because the units were not self contained that definitely makes it a hmo? Even if only three people were staying there (ie one on each of three floors).

On balance then do you feel the council could strongly argue that there has not been lawful use as flats?

The property is in a 'conversion restriction zone' so it's essential that the council agrees that there has been lawful use.

Many thanks for your help Jeds

 

[jeds]

To be flats they have to be self contained. That's to say separate bathrooms, kitchens, utilities and own front door with lock. The doors can lead off of a communal hallway but they have to be distinctly separate. Three people living in a bedroom each and sharing some facilites is an HMO. Flats would be four years - an HMO is ten years.

Just a rider on that to avoid any confusion. Technically speaking a house sub-divided into self contained flats is also an HMO because the definition of an HMO is any house that was once a single house now occupied by more than one houshold. But there are a range of categories of HMO and this legislation does not apply to category F which is self contained flats. All other categories of HMO would be ten years.

 

[indus]

Thanks Jeds.

I just need to be 100% sure on the detail of this.

Whether or not there were shared facilities or separate front door will be impossible to prove one way or the other now. This is because the building was squatted in by some lovely Romanian Gypsys for quite some time, as a consequence the place has been trashed.

(There are remnants of a kitchen on at least two floors.)

What the owner does have is three separate council tax bills which have been paid that way since 2005. (until exempted when the squatters moved in, ie 2011)

Will the council tax evidence be sufficient?

Many thanks