Hi all. This'll be my very first post on this, or any other site. I'll jump straight to the point so as not to waste anyone's time. I wanna fit a 13amp cooker into a 45 amp circuit, I've got the original cable coming down the wall (in a chase) which I'll connect to an MK 45 amp cooker switch and socket, now, do I run 6mm T E from the load side down the chase into an MK fcu fitted with a 13 amp fuse or just finish the run with a bog standard, (but still MK) unswitched socket, fit a plug to the cooker and just plug it in? Thanks.
13 amp oven connected to 45 amp circuit
- Thread starter JimmyT19
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Thanks Wing, my landlord is gonna get his man to sign off on what I do, just wanted to make sure I get it right. The cooker comes with bare tails, I know I can fit a plug and plug it in, What I was getting at was fitting the 13 amp socket on the end of the 45 amp circuit, is this ok? I should have made myself a bit clearer.
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If your landlord knows bent tradesmen who will falsify documents certifying the safety of work done by his tenants you should start looking for a new place to live as a matter of urgency - who knows what dangers you're facing from illegal work done by your predecessors and swept under the carpet.
H
holmslaw
..
I hear you Ban, but some of us don't have much choice about where we live, I won't bore you with personal circumstances. I never for one moment expected my landlord's spark to blindly sign off for a bung, I wouldn't want that anyway, to date I've chased the wall, fitted the metal boxes and that's it, if the spark came round and told me what cable and fittings to fit, then checked it at the end, before I plaster over it, would that be legal?
Cheers Wing, no RCD on the CU, its an old Wylex thing with push in blade fuses, what about an RCD FCU or an RCD socket at the end of the run?
I am NOT an electrician.
It might be OK to run 2.5mm² cable from the switched side of the cooker point to a single 13A concealed socket for the oven. The 13A fuse in the plug then protects the fixed cable and the appliance flex. In a kitchen, this work is notifiable under Part P of the building regulations to the local building control and almost certainly not worth doing yourself. DIY work under Part P can only be signed off by BC.
Being rented accommodation, I think the flex on the fixed appliance would need to be PAT tested annually. I'm pretty certain that would be the case if the appliance was supplied by the landlord. I'm not so sure about it when it belongs to the tenant.
Also, I think any changes to the kitchen wiring also require RCD protection, at least for the modified circuit. With semi-enclosed fuses in the CU, that could mean an new CU. This would be good for you, as you get RCD protection for the flat, however it will cost the landlord a tidy packet.
It might be OK to run 2.5mm² cable from the switched side of the cooker point to a single 13A concealed socket for the oven. The 13A fuse in the plug then protects the fixed cable and the appliance flex. In a kitchen, this work is notifiable under Part P of the building regulations to the local building control and almost certainly not worth doing yourself. DIY work under Part P can only be signed off by BC.
Being rented accommodation, I think the flex on the fixed appliance would need to be PAT tested annually. I'm pretty certain that would be the case if the appliance was supplied by the landlord. I'm not so sure about it when it belongs to the tenant.
Also, I think any changes to the kitchen wiring also require RCD protection, at least for the modified circuit. With semi-enclosed fuses in the CU, that could mean an new CU. This would be good for you, as you get RCD protection for the flat, however it will cost the landlord a tidy packet.
The best option could well be, as you have no RCD protection on the circuit.
Is to have a RCD protected socket installed, connecting this to the 6mm cable.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CM4906.html
But as already stated, kitchens are deemed special locations and are notifiable to building controls.
Is to have a RCD protected socket installed, connecting this to the 6mm cable.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CM4906.html
But as already stated, kitchens are deemed special locations and are notifiable to building controls.
You need to read the manufacturers instructions.
The cooker might be able to be connected to a 45A circuit or it might require fusing.
If it can be connected to a 45A circuit you can use a cooker outlet plate
If it can be connected to a 13A circuit you can use a 13A socket and plug
If however, as is common with European models, the cooker load is >13A and intended for connection to a circuit maximum of 16A then you use the cooker outlet plate mentioned and change the MCB on the circuit to 16A.
Any way use 45A rated cable down to the outlet and fit a deep back box to allow for future requirements.
To comply with 17th Ed Regs the new wiring must be RCD protected. The electrician may be willing to design and test a circuit not in compliance with this.
The cooker might be able to be connected to a 45A circuit or it might require fusing.
If it can be connected to a 45A circuit you can use a cooker outlet plate
If it can be connected to a 13A circuit you can use a 13A socket and plug
If however, as is common with European models, the cooker load is >13A and intended for connection to a circuit maximum of 16A then you use the cooker outlet plate mentioned and change the MCB on the circuit to 16A.
Any way use 45A rated cable down to the outlet and fit a deep back box to allow for future requirements.
To comply with 17th Ed Regs the new wiring must be RCD protected. The electrician may be willing to design and test a circuit not in compliance with this.
Electrically either of those options is fine, in both cases the 45A fuse will protect the fixed cabling and the fuse in the plug or FCU will protect the flex.
Personally if there is space i'd go for the plug and socket. I always preffer applicances to be unpluggable where practical it makes it easier to dsiconnect them for testing and maintinance.
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There are three considerations Legal, Safe complies with IET/BSI.
Too many have already talked about Part P so missing the Legal.
The IET/BSI regulations are going to change and it seems they will be allowing adding sockets to existing non RCD protected circuits so that is also unclear as to if we really should be following to the letter.
It does limit the length of 2.5mm cable between cooker switch and 13A socket to 3 meters, and at them moment a RCD is required.
Sockets and FCU's with RCD's built in are normally the active type and most ovens have the socket hidden. Clearly you can't hide the unit if it has an active RCD.
To fit a passive RCD means fitting at consumer unit end even if not in the consumer unit to prevent volt drop stopping the unit from working.
Of course this means taking the ELI reading and this needs the tools of the trade.
So to Safely do the work it needs some planning and by some one who has the instruments to take the readings to base the planning on.
So if the electrician was to visit and plan the work, then you did the work to his plans, then he returned to test the work. Even though it may not comply with regulations it will be relativity safe.
However without seeing the job and having the readings as far as both earth / line and neutral / line impedance then to plan the work is just not possible.
With a plug I would not want to do without a RCD. With a fused connection unit then I would consider no RCD. I would not like to trust a plug which is never moved so any tarnish is not removed to maintain an earth connection. I would want a solid connected earth or a RCD.
I would think a visible combined RCD and FCU is likely the easy route but think is not good enough you need someone on site to make that call.
Too many have already talked about Part P so missing the Legal.
The IET/BSI regulations are going to change and it seems they will be allowing adding sockets to existing non RCD protected circuits so that is also unclear as to if we really should be following to the letter.
It does limit the length of 2.5mm cable between cooker switch and 13A socket to 3 meters, and at them moment a RCD is required.
Sockets and FCU's with RCD's built in are normally the active type and most ovens have the socket hidden. Clearly you can't hide the unit if it has an active RCD.
To fit a passive RCD means fitting at consumer unit end even if not in the consumer unit to prevent volt drop stopping the unit from working.
Of course this means taking the ELI reading and this needs the tools of the trade.
So to Safely do the work it needs some planning and by some one who has the instruments to take the readings to base the planning on.
So if the electrician was to visit and plan the work, then you did the work to his plans, then he returned to test the work. Even though it may not comply with regulations it will be relativity safe.
However without seeing the job and having the readings as far as both earth / line and neutral / line impedance then to plan the work is just not possible.
With a plug I would not want to do without a RCD. With a fused connection unit then I would consider no RCD. I would not like to trust a plug which is never moved so any tarnish is not removed to maintain an earth connection. I would want a solid connected earth or a RCD.
I would think a visible combined RCD and FCU is likely the easy route but think is not good enough you need someone on site to make that call.
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