17th Edition - RCD requirements and concealled cables

[ban-all-sheds]

But the question is what would happen should something happen to yourself? Is there any system in place for the continued supervision of the installation?

No, but EICs document the compliance of the installation at the time of certification. Anything could change in the future that affects compliance.

Right now my installation is, and is intended to be, under the supervision of a skilled person.

 

[Click-Sure]

I'm sure the Electricity at Work Act has something to say about this, if I get bored later I may well dig into it.

Wouldn't be the first clash of opinion between EAWR and BS7671...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not sure the EAWR apply to my house....

 

[Click-Sure]

Same way I don't think the smoking ban applies to mine, but if a police officer, civil servant or local council worker or even doctor comes around, I'm expcted to extinguish smoking materials a good half hour before.

So, EAWR, like the smoking ban can at times apply to your own house.

I'm not disputing what your saying b-a-s, just helping to examine the counter argument

 

[Spark123]

But the question is what would happen should something happen to yourself? Is there any system in place for the continued supervision of the installation?

No, but EICs document the compliance of the installation at the time of certification. Anything could change in the future that affects compliance.

Right now my installation is, and is intended to be, under the supervision of a skilled person.

Surely the future of the installation needs to be taken into account? I can use things like placing out of reach and document it as a method against direct contact but in a house I just wouldn't!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Same way I don't think the smoking ban applies to mine, but if a police officer, civil servant or local council worker or even doctor comes around, I'm expcted to extinguish smoking materials a good half hour before.

No you aren't.

So, EAWR, like the smoking ban can at times apply to your own house.

What applies are the duties of employees and self-employed people in respect to matters within their control when they are working in my house.

The EAWR imposes no duties on me as I am not an employer within the meaning of the regulations.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Surely the future of the installation needs to be taken into account? I can use things like placing out of reach and document it as a method against direct contact but in a house I just wouldn't!

The problem with the future is that things can happen which change the status of the situation now.

An EIC documents the compliance of the installation now, and offers no guarantees that the installer, or anyone else, won't do something that affects the compliance at any time thereafter, including before the ink is dry on the certificate.

How far do you go in restricting perfectly compliant things now for fear of what someone might do in the future which removes compliance?

If my intentions for my installation were to change, e.g. if I put the property up for sale or rent, then its degree of compliance with BS7671 would change, in exactly the same way that it would change if I removed RCD protection that was needed for compliance, or I extended a circuit and ended up with it too long etc etc etc.

 

[Spark123]

Would you use placing out of reach as a method of protection against direct contact in a house? This is one which is allowed in a location which is only accessable to skilled or instructed persons.
This is one of the methods we use at work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No, because my house is accessible to people other than skilled and instructed ones.

But in respect of actions where, for example, lack of RCD protection on cables less than 50mm deep is relevant, my installation is not under the supervision of anyone other than a skilled or instructed person.

 

[Spark123]

How can you say that it is under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person is what is confusing me? Is there skilled/instructed person in your house 24/7?
My place of work has a lot of electricans there 24/7

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Regarding aspects where regulations are not implemented because it is under the supervision of a skilled person, it is effectively under my supervision whether I am there or not.

I do not worry today that someone might start drilling into the walls without my knowledge, and I shall not start worrying about it in 6 days time.

 

[Spark123]

I'm still struggling to understand how the "under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person" can be implemented in a domestic property.
How can it be under your supervision when you are not there?
I will not be too bothered myself about the amount of 16th edition installations out there with unprotected cables burried less than 50mm within the zones, however the regs are now calling for them to be RCD protected. Using the "skilled and instructed persons" workaround isn't advice I for one am going to be handing out as I believe that to be for places where there are skilled and instructed persons present at all times when it is inhabited, mainly places of work where there is a system in place to look after the installation i.e. by the employment of competent persons.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think my interpretation is just as valid as yours, in these circumstances.

 

[RF Lighting]

We have been told at college that a domestic installation can't be deemed to be "under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person" all the time, therefore this is not a valid way of complying with the 17th edition.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

People at college get told all sorts of things. Not all of them are accurate.