2 gang shock / PiR

[leftnothing]

But these are equally true:

1. Cheap ≠ quality
2. It is illegal to sell or import non-CE marked electrical goods
3. There is more than enough evidence that buying cheap, illegal, Chinese electrical carp is dangerous to convince anyone with any sense not to do it, and to convince anyone who cares about his family not to do it.

Looking on this government site, it states "plugs and socket outlets for domestic use" are excluded from the LVD and the "CE mark is not a quality mark, nor a guarantee that the product meets all of the requirements of relevant EU product safety law" - Out of interest, is there another directive for electrical plugs and socket outlets?

Are you suggesting Amazon are breaking the law by selling these products? If so, let me know which law they are breaking and I will take it up with them!?

I'm wary of the products but they don't feel "cheap and nasty" - they feel "low cost but well made" items. Did you specifically choose the most expensive PIRs from TLC or are they all around 20x more expensive? £48 for a PIR is way over priced in today's world.

 

[bernardgreen]

What else could have caused me to receive a shock?

Was it a short sharp shock, ? If it was then maybe it was a static electric shock discharging static electricity built up on your body ( harmless ) via the switch. The voltage of a static charge can be high enough to create an arc several millimetres long. It would not be necessary to touch the screw in the switch for this discharge to happen. It would discharge va an arc from fnger to screw through a couple of millimetres of air.

High voltage but very little static electrical energy can be stored on a human body and thus current only flows for a few micro seconds before the charge has been dis-charged.

That said the integrity of the earthing should be checked to ensure the screws are earthed via the back box of the switch.

 

[bernardgreen]

Are you suggesting Amazon are breaking the law by selling these products? If so, let me know which law they are breaking and I will take it up with them!?

If Amazon sell the items then maybe they are infringing the law. If however they are acting as means for customer to find a seller and the sale is direct from seller to customer then Amazon are not involved in the sales contract and are not legally responsible for the quality and/or safety of the items that sellers sell to customers. It could be said that Amazon may be acting un-ethically by having dubious sellers of dubious items in their system

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Looking on this government site, it states "plugs and socket outlets for domestic use" are excluded from the LVD

So? Are you now considering buying flaky plugs and sockets as well?

and the "CE mark is not a quality mark, nor a guarantee that the product meets all of the requirements of relevant EU product safety law"

It's no guarantee because it is just a claim - can be falsely made.

Out of interest, is there another directive for electrical plugs and socket outlets?

BS 1363.

Are you suggesting Amazon are breaking the law by selling these products? If so, let me know which law they are breaking and I will take it up with them!?

Amazon aren't selling them. They are profiting from providing every single bit of infrastructure needed for the real seller to operate, they are providing a means for customers to find the sellers, and as your comments indicate they are lending the goodwill of their name to the sellers' operations to the extent that people think they are buying "from Amazon". But they have no legal responsibility for anything that happens because of their service provision.

I'm wary of the products but they don't feel "cheap and nasty" - they feel "low cost but well made" items.

Blimey - to think of all the money people waste on testing when all they need is just to feel the product.

Did you specifically choose the most expensive PIRs from TLC or are they all around 20x more expensive?

No, I just picked one at random - I didn't even look at the price.

£48 for a PIR is way over priced in today's world.

Spoken like a true believer in the notion that a reasonable price these days is that which can be achieved by the makers of lethally dangerous carp with no concern for the law, their customers, their employees or the environment.

 

[bernardgreen]

SWMBO asked if we could replace the switch with a PiR as I purchased a couple of these a while ago and not yet fitted.

At that price they will be rubbish and quite possibly dangerous.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/STIS180B.html is a decent reliable and safe PIR from Steinel

 

[endecotp]

Beware switching inductive loads (i.e. fans) with PIRs or other electronic controls; see

//www.diynot.com/diy/threads/how-to-calculate-maximum-switchable-load.456677/

 

[bhm1712]

Don't buy cheap tack. Simple as. £48 for a decent PIR is reasonable.

Don't ever forget that "the bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low prices is forgotten"

Nothing could be more accurate especially if the said item happens to burn your house down.

 

[leftnothing]

Thanks for all the replies.... I think it might be simpler to just replace the switch with another similar product. The shock could well have been static as suggested above but I don't want to take the risk for the £2 price of a new switch from Screwfix. I will also double check the earthing too.

I guess some disclosure required... in a previous life I once was responsible for bringing electrical products to market, we were VERY stringent on ensuring the relevant tests had been carried out, however it also means I understand some of the problems with manufacture, testing and development.

As an example, only one or two samples are actually tested via a 3rd party lab for product safety, a production run of 100,000 units could all be faulty but as long as the sample passed in the lab, everyone is covered legally (hence the statement on the above site). Unless it's changed, most of these type of products will be coming out of the same production facilities in the Far East, the same ODM's that make e.g. MK switches could well be producing Voltex as well as the so called "cheap carp". It's for this reason that I am open to trying some products and yes, through years of practice with 1000's of samples you can get a "feel" for the quality by looking at the finish and product design. Doesn't make it "safe" but gives an impression based on experience.

I'm now intrigued as it looks like my original Voltex switch and one's I can see for sale elsewhere are not CE marked either, is there some other legislation which covers light switches I should be looking for as it doesn't appear to be covered by CE!? I guess I was playing devil's advocate by using Amazon's name above, I am fully aware it was a supplier on their marketplace but a laymen would not be, if these products are illegal, if someone can point out which law makes them so I will see what Amazon say (they removed the "Hover boards" over safety so you never know!).

Thanks all!

LN

 

[Iggifer]

Looking on this government site, it states "plugs and socket outlets for domestic use" are excluded from the LVD

What you have is neither a plug nor or a socket. Plugs and sockets in the UK must conform to BS1363 so the PIR is not excluded.

If you want to fit them, go ahead. We can't stop you. But as you've seen, none of us would fit them, for ourselves or anyone else. That should tell you something. We have no vested interest in Steinel or TLC or any other reseller. We recommend things because we've fitted them before, and know them to be quality.

 

[stillp]

Not a Directive, plugs and sockets are covered by national legislation, in the UK "The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994".

a production run of 100,000 units could all be faulty but as long as the sample passed in the lab, everyone is covered legally

No, that's not enough for legal compliance. Production control is included in the subjects covered covered by the Low Voltage Directive.

Amazon are not breaking the law by making you aware that a product that would be illegal in the EU is available for sale in a non-EU country. However anyone who imports those products in connection with a business is committing a criminal offence. Whether Amazon UK are behaving ethically in allowing these products to be offered is another matter.

 

[PBC_1966]

I can't add much but to emphasize that a sub-£2 PIR direct from China is going to be nothing but cheap junk which at best probably won't last and at worst could be downright dangerous. And "CE" marking really means nothing if you buy direct from China, since there are many companies there which simply apply the mark to everything they sell regardless of whether it would ever meet the appropriate standards or not.

 

[leftnothing]

No, that's not enough for legal compliance. Production control is included in the subjects covered covered by the Low Voltage Directive.

What production control tests the products to the same level as the lab tests?

I've seen millions of products across 1000's of SKUs produced (covered by LVD) for major global manufacturers and there was no "production control" which tested anywhere near like a lab test !? - Has something new been introduced in recent years?

 

[stillp]

What production control tests the products to the same level as the lab tests?

None, that's not the point. Production control ensures that all the products are within a defined spec, and details the sampling and testing that will be performed during production and the actions that will be taken if any products are found to deviate. Lab tests are performed on a sample of products to prove the design.

 

[JBR]

Are there any rubber grommets protecting the wires entering the back box from within the wall? It's difficult to see from your picture.

I ask because I have discovered that more than one of our back boxes did not have any (they do now), presumably because the previous owner of our house was called Roger (the bodger).

And also, is that earth wire connected to the back box in any way? Again, I can't see from the picture.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Bodgers were skilled craftsmen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodging