240v low energy downlights - advice needed

[kinhell]

I'm after 14 fire rated 240v low energy downlights. TLC sell them with a megaman cfl 11w lamp for £16 plus vat. Anyone know of any online suppliers who do a better deal? Money is tight so got to watch the pennies.

These are the sort I'm after
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GUFRD11C.html

 

[securespark]

Is there a reason they have to be fire-rated?

 

[kinhell]

Its for a single storey kitchen extension with a loft space above.

 

[SeanT]

So not a living space above then?

 

[Dippy]

Fastlec: http://www.fastlec.co.uk/flameguard-low-energy-cfl-fixed-downlights-with-11w-megaman-lamp-p-638.html

 

[Taylortwocities]

Unless the kitchen is a fire rated compartment there's actually no need for fire rated fittings.

Mind you, I'd fit them if my kid's bedroom was above it...

 

[Dartlec]

I agree TTC.

Having said that, the normal risk of fire is from the heat given off from the halogen bulbs, and if you are using CFL that risk is largely mitigated.

Of course you can't guarantee that someone will not put normal halogen back in at some point, when they see the price of CFL lamps and think (wrongly I suspect) that they are not value for money.

I've seen the problems insulation and normal downlights cause and it isn't pretty so I have started preaching the cfl route for those who will listen.

However, there is still the problem of slightly slower turn on, which at least one of my customers found unacceptable. (these were cheap B&Q cfl fittings, £14 for 3 so might be an option if the OP really does want to watch the pennies - not fire rated though)

I've recently tried the Megaman and Aurora cfl lamps and they both seem to work well, though I personally prefer the colour of light from the Megaman slightly.

 

[Katron]

I have fitted the magamann 11w energy savers, the colour was fine, the only problem I found was, the lamps took 3 - 5 mins to reach full brightness, not great when just nipping to fridge to get a beer..

 

[SeanT]

Ditto, the energy saving spots are great in hallways etc., utterly useless in kitchens (just stayed in the new center parcs villas which are full of them)

 

[kinhell]

Thanks for the info. I'll get the ones from fastlec as they are way less than from TLC for the same thing.

 

[trouserbox]

I agree TTC.

Having said that, the normal risk of fire is from the heat given off from the halogen bulbs, and if you are using CFL that risk is largely mitigated.

I dont think you know what you are talking about here my friend, there is no danger from the heat given off from halogen 'bulbs' if installed correctly. even a dichroic halogen lamp which throws out a significant amount of heat from the rear of its reflector would not be able to ignite timber that came into contact with it.

The whole purpose of fire rated luminaires it to ensure that the fire integrity of a fire rated ceiling is retained should one wish to cut a hole in it and insert a light fixture. A fire rated down light such as the can type, or accessorys such as the fire-hood have not been conceived because these lights are a fire risk, but because their installation may degrade an already installed fire barrier. And simply because there is no room or other dwelling above a ceiling with down-lights does not mean that you can choose to omit these devices, it could be the case that there are structural steel members above the ceiling which require protection from the transmission of fire from below the ceiling in question.

The bottom line is that building regs require you to make good any hole or break in the building structure that is made that could permit the transmission of fire or smoke. There are many products available to assist us in this, including intumessent gaskets and inserts for electrical boxes and fire hoods of all sizes, but the fire-rated down light is a time-saving god-send

It should be also be noted that most if not all fires attributed to electrical causes are as a result of loose connections, and not 'hot' lamps.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What is it with people resurrecting old lighting threads this evening?

The whole purpose of fire rated luminaires it to ensure that the fire integrity of a fire rated ceiling is retained should one wish to cut a hole in it and insert a light fixture.

But if the ceiling is not a barrier between two separate fire compartments, what fire rating does it have to have, and how is the rating actually affected by cutting holes in it for downlighters?

The bottom line is that building regs require you to make good any hole or break in the building structure that is made that could permit the transmission of fire or smoke.

Do they?

Where?

There are many products available to assist us in this, including intumessent gaskets and inserts for electrical boxes and fire hoods of all sizes, but the fire-rated down light is a time-saving god-send

IF you need them, yes.

But mostly the bottom line they are a godsend for is the one on the maker's balance sheet...

I dont think you know what you are talking about here my friend

 

[trouserbox]

Clicked on the link to your rather limited 2000 version of the building regs there BAS and it did'nt take me more than 15 seconds to scroll down to this...

Internal fire spread (linings)
B2 (1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall—
(a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and
(b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances.
(2) In this paragraph “internal linings” means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure

dont want to argue mate, certainly dont have time to answer back to all your points, think i have made mine

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Clicked on the link to your rather limited 2000 version of the building regs there BAS

1) It is the entire, unabridged version.
2) It is the latest version.

Surely you know what the latest version of the full Building Regulations looks like?

and it did'nt take me more than 15 seconds to scroll down to this...

Internal fire spread (linings)
B2 (1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall—
(a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and
(b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances.
(2) In this paragraph “internal linings” means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure

"Adequately resist".

Doesn't say anything about making good holes as a matter of course.

http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/Wire...nstalling_recessed_luminaires_in_ceilings.pdf

 

[trouserbox]

You are being very silly 'Bas' of course i know what the building regs 'looks like' and its not the 36 page pdf you have downloaded, which really isnt the complete unabridged version. Part L1 and L2 of the BR comprise 155 pages alone for goodness sake, and part P all of 44 pages! so i think you need to research a bit further than what you have already before you can make any further comment.

The building regs will not tell you how to do you your job fella, just like B7671 doesnt tell you how to be an electrician. Both are documents designed for professionals to assist them in understanding the standards that are required or recommended at the point at which they are published. They are not a minimun standard to work to!

Dont think about being 'adequate' Bas, think about being a Professional.