All sockets on one ring main

[xyz321]

Hi

One of the friends has just discovered that all the sockets in his house are on one circuit. Its a semi detached from 1950. He has a old style fuse box with MCBs.
I
He has not had any nuisance tripping or other problems in the house. Kitchen has electric cooker and oven but they are on their direct circuit. Only other appliance in kitchen is dishwasher and chimney hood. Fridge / washing machine are in seperate utility room.

He is considering having kitchen refurbished in near future.

1. Are all sockets on circuit as bad as it sounds.

2. Any idea on appropriate cost of running a new circuit from fuse box to kitchen. Fuse box is under stairs, and kitchen is almost next to fuse box. There is only a small larder between.

3. What does rewiring actually involve? There are existing sockets and light. Switches in kitchen. What happens to these existing circuits? Does this need complete rewiring of entire kitchen.

 

[Iggifer]

1) likely not really an issue - as you say he's having no issues
2) this is not as simple as to sounds as it will require RCD protection and it sounds like there isn't one, so this would need to be resolved
3) it all depends what he wants doing, if it's a total rip out of the kitchen, I would rip out all the existing wiring, re-make the ring for the rest of the house, and fit all new, if it's not such a big job, he might be able to re-use what's there

it all depends on how much work is being done, and how much he wants done electrically

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

1. Are all sockets on circuit as bad as it sounds.

This is not unusual on properties of that age, it would not be recommended these days. But it would only be bad if you had power loss, due to overload or fault!

2. Any idea on appropriate cost of running a new circuit from fuse box to kitchen. Fuse box is under stairs, and kitchen is almost next to fuse box. There is only a small larder between.

Does the fuseboard have RCD protection, is the earthing arrangement and tails in good order?
Would be very difficult to state a price too many variables to consider, I could quite easily fit an RCD unit with one circuit to the kitchen and a couple socket outlets on it, but life is not that simple and the requirements and location of electrical equipment within the kitchen often determine a little more electrical work.

3. What does rewiring actually involve? There are existing sockets and light. Switches in kitchen. What happens to these existing circuits? Does this need complete rewiring of entire kitchen.

A rewire means everything comes out and new goes in, lots of mess.

 

[ricicle]

My house has one RFC and I've never had a trip through overload. We have A tumble dryer.

 

[xyz321]

Thanks for ur replies. He is planning to get fuse board changed with rcd protection. Plan was to do it in six months time but it can be brought forward to be done just before kitchen work starts. Then presumably when kitchen wall tiles are ripped off, new Wiring may be done.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Tell your friend to have a electrical installation condition report done first, this should flag up most issues, some systems do not like the swap to RCDs and if this report is not made, your friend could have power loss problems and a bill they were not expecting!

 

[NickB_99]

I faced the same decision last Spring, when getting my kitchen done.

Had a new ring put into the kitchen with new cable and the original ring still operating, but with less sockets.

The CU was also done and I was warned (as PBOD suggests) the changeover may reveal other problems.

Thankfully it went in fine with no problems. Installation all signed off.

Glad I did the upgrade when the kitchen was all stripped out.

 

[ericmark]

My fathers house built 1954 had far more sockets than my granddads a jump from 2 x 15A to 5 x 13A. Over the years these were added to and that's the real problem. 7/0.29 cable was often rubber but did work out at around 3.5mm² which did mean it could take a little more current but likely also some 2.5mm² will have also been used and unlikely to be an extension to the ring but more likely to be spurs from spurs. When limited to the stuff being used in the 1950's this was not too much of a problem washing machines like the Bendix would use hot and cold fill with no water heaters and there were no dish washers or tumble driers.

The lights is also a problem likely with no earth included.

The problem is how to add new which has to comply with new regulations. For a kitchen the most likely way around the problem is a kitchen supply with it's own sub-consumer unit which is the name given to what was a fuse box. However this is not the only way around the problem and much would depend on local conditions so price could vary a lot.

 

[xyz321]

Tell your friend to have a electrical installation condition report done first, this should flag up most issues, some systems do not like the swap to RCDs and if this report is not made, your friend could have power loss problems and a bill they were not expecting!

So will this report, which I presume will include some testing, confirm whether RCD is suitable or not I am just thinking if report doesn't identify any major issues (it's a assumption I kniw) , he changes CU with Rcd and then problems start appearing! I though.

Also I thought rcd is more sensitive and hence is it possible that the ring main which is currently ok, may start having problems after rcds are installed.

 

[xyz321]

I faced the same decision last Spring, when getting n my kitchen done.

Had a new ring put into the kitchen with new cable and the original ring still operating, but with less sockets.

The CU was also done and I was warned (as PBOD suggests) the changeover may reveal other problems.

Thankfully it went in fine with no problems. Installation all signed off.

Glad I did the upgrade when the kitchen was all stripped out.

Thanks. Did u have ECIR done and any idea approximately how much it costed to run a new circuit.

 

[xyz321]

One more question

Is there any guidance on what is the maximum loading that can be supported on a single circuit. May be he can add up wattage of all devices normally connected and see what happens! what is typical diversity factor for such household calculations?

i am attaching a photo showing his current fuseboard if that helps!

Untitled

• xyz321
• 30 Jan 2014
• 1

 

[Iggifer]

looks like he might have an RCD somewhere, or some numpty has just stuck 2 RCD warning labels on there for fun......

 

[xyz321]

looks like he might have an RCD somewhere, or some numpty has just stuck 2 RCD warning labels on there for fun......

Bathroom supply is through separate RCD box.

 

[Iggifer]

is there not space in there to run the kitchen from that too?

Could save him a few £££

 

[xyz321]

is there not space in there to run the kitchen from that too?

Could save him a few £££

I would ask him to check.