Alpha CB24 problem

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Hello everyone, i'm sorry my first post is a plea for help, but i have been lurking for a while and have learnt some valuable information from your helpfull forum.

For the last few months 2 of my largest radiators have not been getting hot, and the rest of the smaller ones have only been getting luke warm at best.

My system is 9 years old and because i wasnt the owner when it was installed i have no idea if it was cleaned out prior to fitting.

I have basic plumbing skills and understand how heating systems work..
So, after reading the forums i thought that maybe the TRV's were stuck, sprayed wd40 on them all and they move up and down perfectly.

I then hired a powerflush machine and cleaned the whole system, to be honest the water was pretty clean.
Refilled everything and added inhibitor.
When i was refilling i could hear the air vent on the pump letting air out, so think this is ok.
Bled all the radiators and fired the system up.
Loads of gurgling happened for the first few seconds and then it seemed to settle down.

The boiler though would only run for about 20 seconds and then stop, when it was firing it made a sound similar to a kettle heating its water up, getting louding and "hissy"
I thought there may have been some air trapped near the pump, so after learning a trick on here i was flicking the pump speed switch between 3 and 2 which stopped the pump and then started it again, i was hoping it would force the air into a radiator somewhere.
I did this for almost an hour with no joy.

I then went back to basics and drained the system again and refilled it.
Exactly the same thing was happening.

So to summarise whats happening.
Boiler will fire for 20 seconds or so and then stop (sometimes giving a solid red "A" light, which goes out on its own after a short while)
The pump is working, but when i was setting it between 3 and 2 to stop the pump i can hear water gurgling down from the boiler somewhere and into the pipes.
The pump is not getting hot as i would expect it too if it was pumping hot water.
The flow pipe from the boiler gets red hot, but soon cools, the return pipe never seems to get warm.
When i put a screwdriver to the Flow pipe and listen all i hear is water "trickling" down, with the pump running.

I have just priced up an Alpha pump and with vat its almost £135.
Now before i spend this money am i right in assuming the pump has gone?
If so what goes wrong on a pump that allows it to run but not pump anything?

It seems that the boiler is stopping because it is overheating where the pump is not taking the water away fast enough...

Realy appreciate any help as i live with my elderly mother and believe it or not she is cold.....

Many thanks for any help

O, the boiler is situated in a cupboard which makes for awkward maintenance and the boiler is higher than any of the pipework and radiators in the house.
 
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Just need to add that if left to its own devises the boiler will continue the above process, after about an hour some of the upstairs rads will become slightly warm.....
 
You write so much but dont see which model boiler!

I dont even know if its open vented or sealed or what system pressure is.

I wonder if there is water in the system.


If you are clever enough to do power flushing properly then you should be able to diagnose simple faults.

Did you do a bucket test on the two problem rads? See FAQ.

Tony
 
Its an Alpha CB24. Have you made sure that any filters, ie in the heating return are clear.It does sound that the venting is not complete.
 
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How does the boiler behave when you ask for hot water?
 
Hi Tony, sorry the boiler is an Alpha CB 24 as i put in the thread title.
Was there any need for your sarcasm?
Sorry to have bothered you.

DP, The boiler behaves perfectly normal when asking for hot water.
 
Did you do a bucket test on the two problem rads? See FAQ.

Read more: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2000275#2000275#ixzz1NNg5P5HM
Since the power flush i am struggling to get any of the radiators working.
The hot water seems to fall into the flow pipe out of the boiler, but the boiler soon cuts out again.

When the pump switch is set between the 3 and 2 setting and stops pumping you can then here water trickling and gurgling down through the system
 
Its an Alpha CB24. Have you made sure that any filters, ie in the heating return are clear.It does sound that the venting is not complete.
I think whoever fitted this boiler built the cupboard around it afterwards.
The pipework is almost impossible to see with both eyes...
In the manual there is a cyclone separator, is this the filter?
I am in work at present but will check when i get home....
Many thanks for your time.

There does seem to be a lot of air trapped in the boiler area, but when i refilled it i did hear the air coming out of the auto vent, although this stopped way before i had the correct water pressure in the system.....

Can pumps be damaged if there is air trapped near it?
I presume because the boiler is situated higher than all other rads and pipwork that when i was refilling a lot of the air would be pushed to the highest point, being the boiler?
 
Have you vented the pump?

The AAV only operates when the pump is operating.

Tony
 
Have you vented the pump?

The AAV only operates when the pump is operating.

Tony
If that is the case then i have a problem...
When i was refilling the system i could clearly hear air escaping from i presume the auto air vent, obviously the pump was not running at this time.
I did unscrew the screw on the front, had a little water and a little air then nothing, impellor hit my screwdriver, but not with huge force i have to say...

By venting the pump do you mean undoing the silver screw on the front?

Thanks for your help and time Tony.
 
I need to make it clear that there was obviously a problem before i did the flush.
2 of the largest rads would not work and the others would only get luke warm at best, except the bathroom which is next to the boiler and possibly the first on the circuit.....

By doing the flush and emptying down the system twice it seems i have made the initial problem worse, its possible that it wasnt all fitted correctly and there is some cunning trick used before i moved here to get the boiler running again...

I just cant afford to spend huge lumps of money hoping i have diagnosed the problem correctly, which is why i am here.
 
If the pump was not vented, HW would be problematic, you are getting HW so pump and internal plumbing in boiler is OK

OP, I would be looking at the diverter valve. I would remove it and service same.

OP send me a PM for further guidance/ help.
 
Many thanks DP
I have attempted to send you a PM but it says i am not your friend :cry:
Billy no mates here :D
 
Gauze filter on the right hand side heating pipe isolation valve is blocked, that'll be £65.00 please .
 
:idea: When you do need a new pump for your CB24 buy a standard Grundfos UPS 15/60 for a lot less bucks than the inflated price of the Alpha unit - remove the 4 allen screws on both pumps and swap the head.
I am not sugesting that thre is a fault on your pump at the moment, as the HW is operating OK but for future reference................ ;)
 

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