Baxi smoke tube

[ianmcd]

He is great with boilers

To be honest you wouldnt know if he was any good or not

 

[June Johnstone]

Yes Ian that is very true. I thought he was a lovely guy but I think he will never want to talk to me again after next week. Not sure how his boss will take it when I say "I have a flue. Why have you employed a sweep?" I can't wait to hear his reply.

 

[ianmcd]

boss will take it when I say "I have a flue.

NO you have a flue liner, or copex liner as they are sometimes called

 

[June Johnstone]

Ok Ian, is that a round one that would go right up to the top of the chimney?

 

[ianmcd]

yep that is the one , it is connected at the back boiler and is jointless to the terminal at the top of the chimney, nothing that can be swept.

Looks like this

 

[Gasguru]

Very briefly....

The fire must be removed so that the integrity of the flue liner (a flexible tube from top to bottom) can be checked and that it is secured to the back boiler flue outlet and is clear.
The redundant back boiler must be checked for correct decommissioning.
Any old pipe holes etc. in the chimney breast must be sealed up.
Ideally the gap between the flue liner and masonry should be sealed.
The liner must be terminated with the appropriate terminal (normally circular and aluminium) where it emerges from the chimney on the roof.
If necessary the fire ventilation requirement should be checked.
The flue integrity must be checked with a smoke pellet (say by placing it on a tray just below the liner), and whilst it is burning the entire chimney is checked for any escape of
smoke (including the roof space) and for the smoke to only emerge from the liner terminal. It is sometimes necessary to warm the flue with a blowlamp beforehand to help the draw.

The fire should be thoroughly inspected for any signs of heat exchanger cracking etc.
The burner must be checked for cracking etc.
The lint arrestor/gauze should be cleaned.
Any safety devices checked.
The radiants (the ceramic parts that face you) must be in perfect condition.
And several other checks....

Finally the fire is operated and the burner pressure measured or the gas consumption calculated (using the gas meter) and this figure is checked against the manufacturers data and
entered onto the gas safety record.
A spillage check is done using a smoke match (inside the smoke tube) to ensure the combustion fumes are correctly drawn into the flue.
Between the manufacturers manuals, and all the million other standards we use there is little ambiguity regarding the procedures.

Did they even bother taking the case of the boiler?

Unfortunately those gas installers carrying out gas safety records are often the very worst in the industry due to the fact that estate agents want to pay the minimum (and many
installers will be earning less than £20 a property after expenses) and the agents want everything to "pass"...they don't want to give bad news to landlords. If you're not an assertive
gas eng. you very quickly become corrupted by estate agents and drop down to their low ethics.

 

[Gasguru]

This is the back boiler located behind the fire....the flexible flue liner connects onto the spigot at the top.
As yours is decommissioned it's missing the burner and gas valve etc and the gas connection has been capped off.
The flue outlet from the fire enters the slot just below the flue liner connection.

 

[June Johnstone]

Thanks again gasguru and everyone else. I have just sent an email to the manager of my leasing agent expressing my concerns. His colleague I sent it to last Thursday said she "couldn't possibly comment" as she wasn't a gas engineer. Of course I didn't know about the flue liner then but I do now. I also got a reply for the Gas Safety Register and this is what they replied:
It’s difficult for us to comment if the engineer has carried out the test correctly as we were not present at the time.
The gas fire should be removed to visually inspect the catchment area behind the fire and to carry out a flue flow test using the correct smoke pellet with all doors and windows closed.
The final spillage test would be carried out with a smoke match in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions with the gas fire in operation and all doors and windows closed to confirm correct operation of the gas appliance and the flue/chimney.
If you have concerns regarding the work quality of the engineer, I would advise you to take this up with the company and ask for a 2nd opinion from another engineer.
I included that quote in my email too.
I just got a reply saying the leasing agent manager is out of the office today so I have to wait yet another flipping day to get anywhere. I cannot wait until tomorrow though ......if you can all hang on until then to hear what the outcome is?

 

[June Johnstone]

Bad news. I got a call from the leasing agent. She called the gas engineer's manager this morning. He has said he will come out and do a test but only if I'm prepared to pay myself for the callout if the outcome is the same. I am fuming. I think I will leave it until Tuesday when the leasing agency manager is back and he's read my email I sent today. The landlady is having nothing to do with it. What a shambles.

Sad I have nowhere to turn in a situation like this isn't it? What if this was an old lady whose fire was condemned for having nowt wrong with it? Ach I'm fair scunnered!

 

[FiremanT]

Your back boiler is still in situ but de-commisioned, the boiler has a flue liner , it will not be blocked, they are talking total rubbish, you dont sweep a liner

TBF, Ian, it wont be blocked in the traditional sense, but it COULD be full of cobwebs, killing the flue.

In this case, though, it is clear that the "RGI" has not a clue about BBU/fires, and is more likely to be a misdiagnosis.

Cobwebs are probably more of an issue on a fire with a decommissioned BBU, as the flue would be unused for months on end, rather than a (normally) daily firing for a BBU

 

[FiremanT]

Thanks again gasguru and everyone else. I have just sent an email to the manager of my leasing agent expressing my concerns. His colleague I sent it to last Thursday said she "couldn't possibly comment" as she wasn't a gas engineer. Of course I didn't know about the flue liner then but I do now. I also got a reply for the Gas Safety Register and this is what they replied:
It’s difficult for us to comment if the engineer has carried out the test correctly as we were not present at the time.
The gas fire should be removed to visually inspect the catchment area behind the fire and to carry out a flue flow test using the correct smoke pellet with all doors and windows closed.
The final spillage test would be carried out with a smoke match in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions with the gas fire in operation and all doors and windows closed to confirm correct operation of the gas appliance and the flue/chimney.
If you have concerns regarding the work quality of the engineer, I would advise you to take this up with the company and ask for a 2nd opinion from another engineer.
I included that quote in my email too.
I just got a reply saying the leasing agent manager is out of the office today so I have to wait yet another flipping day to get anywhere. I cannot wait until tomorrow though ......if you can all hang on until then to hear what the outcome is?

Do not offer or agree to pay. The RGI was clearly inexperienced, and not fit for purpose.

Have you a copy of the Landlord Record (certificate) ? The RGI's registration number should be on there. Go to:

Check a Gas Safe Registered Engineer Qualifications - Gas Safe Register


and check his credentials. HE MUST have "fires" to work on the BBU. If not, ne is out of scope, and the company has sent him illegally. He may just be inexperienced, though

 

[Gasguru]

Apparently they are "qualified" to work on fires...but back boilers are so rare nowadays that new entrants into the trade will have no experience of them.

June you still haven't told us what procedures the company took when the flue was deemed to be blocked....even though we suspect the whole test was a farce they should have labeled the fire, disconnected it and issued you with a warning notice. Post a pic of the warning notice (cover the address/engineer/company details). If they haven't that's a very serious offence and Gas-Safe will be far more concerned.

 

[June Johnstone]

I have looked them up before. He is qualified to work on Fires in his personal summary. He clearly has no experience of a Baxi Bermuda or BBU's.

The company just called me. The boss cannot manage along until a week on Thursday and I have to take the morning off work to be there which is anytime between 8 and 12 as he won't give me an exact time or call me when he's on his way (I live 15 mins away from work). What a lovely guy eh? He only lives 6 miles from my house. He obviously thinks I have no leg to stand on as he's not concerned in the slightest.

The rookie RGI disconnected the fire and stuck a "warning, do not use" label to the fire. I did get a warning sheet which I think says 'failed smoke test' so I believe he did everything properly there. He even got his apprentice who was with him to test the pipework when done to make sure there were no leaks....yes he has an apprentice. I will take a pic of the warning notice just so I have it in my ammunition.

Gas Safe are not too concerned. As I said they just say to get him back or get a second opinion. I have to pay for either of these options. The landlady will not pay for another check...but I will end up saving her money if she doesn't need a sweep or another engineer to remove the fire. Sad that nobody is taking my concerns seriously and there is no governing body to take him to task. It is all on my shoulders which is worse. Even the leasing agents are not on my side. They just worry what the landlady will say. Fair enough I suppose.

Anything I've missed? Please ask if I haven't explained things clearly.

 

[June Johnstone]

Just to keep you posted the 'boss' is coming round a week on Thursday and I think he is bringing the rookie with him. He is far too busy sorting out folk with no heating at the moment that I have to wait in the queue. Fair enough. A waiting game. Fingers crossed he will do the proper test.

 

[June Johnstone]

Sorry guys another question. I've got last years safety record and it ask under "inspection details", "was the appliance serviced"? There is a big fat NO against it. So it was safety checked but not serviced in Sept 2020. I don't know if this RGI was employed to do a service or just a safety check. I have asked my leasing agent.

If he was doing a proper service would he not have removed the fire to check the chimney so he could determine if the fault was the fire or a blocked chimney? If the chimney wasn't blocked then it would be obvious that the fire is at fault so maybe it would be time to replace it.

My question is should a fire be safety tested for the landlord safety check AND ALSO serviced once a year? Or is a service not required? I read that it is required but I thought I should ask the professionals.

Thanks